Bitcoin is a Startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#81

Post by gnaritas » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:42 PM UTC

volaski wrote: post #76

lectrick wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, every currency ever invented was a Ponzi scheme? When the government of a country prints money for itself, is it engaging in Ponzi? Gold mining (which is quite analogous to Bitcoin mining) is also a ponzi scheme, then?

I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe…

> I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached.

You're using the term incorrectly, a Ponzi scheme isn't what you seem to think it is.

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#82

Post by gnaritas » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:45 PM UTC

lingben wrote: post #23

jhuckestein wrote: post #6

I love Bitcoin and own some myself, but from the title I expected this article to be about how the "founders" of Bitcoin cash out from an early financing round and spend the rest of their days rich, regardless of whether the concept survives.

Given time everyone will come to realize that bitcoin is a very complex and elaborate ponzi scheme. One that will rewrite the books on scams.

No they won't, because bitcoin isn't a Ponzi scheme or a scam. If you think bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then I suggest you don't know what a Ponzi scheme actually is and you're using the term inappropriately.

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#83

Post by lectrick » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 2:18 AM UTC

volaski wrote: post #76

lectrick wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, every currency ever invented was a Ponzi scheme? When the government of a country prints money for itself, is it engaging in Ponzi? Gold mining (which is quite analogous to Bitcoin mining) is also a ponzi scheme, then?

I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe…

From https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F :

Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme?

In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adopters profit from the rise in value. Late adopters, and indeed, society as a whole, benefit from the usefulness of a stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted p2p currency.

The fact that early adopters benefit more doesn't alone make anything a Ponzi scheme. All good investments in successful companies have this quality.

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#84

Post by volaski » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 6:15 AM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #80

volaski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking more in terms of unit value of Bitcoins. I think a lot of people invest in Bitcoins like they invest in stocks. As of today Bitcoin price is $122.10 but it used to be much lower. The more people start using Bitcoins the more valuable it will be, and the early adopters will benefit from it, which incentivizes them to hold onto their Bitcoins instead of letting them go once they have benefited short-term.…

That's not a description of a Ponzi scheme.

I did not imply that in any of my comments

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#85

Post by volaski » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 6:18 AM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #81

volaski wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe…

> I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. You're using the term incorrectly, a Ponzi scheme isn't what you seem to think it is.

Please read my original comment. I never said what you seem to think I said.

Re: Bitcoin is a Startup

#86

Post by volaski » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 6:25 AM UTC

lectrick wrote: post #83

volaski wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe…

From https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F : Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme? In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy. A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adop…

I never said "Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme". I just saw some similarities in how people behave around Bitcoins and Ponzi Scheme and described my point of view. It's not so much different from talking about how multi level marketing and ponzi scheme have similarities, and how evangelism in christianity and ponzi scheme have similarities. Just because they have commonalities, doesn't mean "Christianity is a Ponzi Scheme"