Don't Fly During Ramadan • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#591

Post by rincebrain » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 9:57 PM UTC

unhappyhippie wrote: post #451

javert wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine the only worse thing I could be is an Iranian nuclear scientist. I would like to think such a person would have no problem coming, but just wouldn't be allowed to go back.

This is what I find surprising about security checks, don't quite understand. When I entered Israel I was out hailing a cab within minutes of debarking my flight. When I was leaving, they had me detained and searched thoroughly. I couldn't understand why they let me enter in the first place if I was such a suspect personality.

On the way out, Israel not only cares about their security checks, but whether you're going to cause other countries to doubt their checks.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#592

Post by msrpotus » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 9:57 PM UTC

marccuban wrote: post #404

This article has very little to do with Ramadan...Muslims don't fly more often during Ramadan than the rest of the year, do they? 9/11 didn't happen during Ramadan. Take a look at this objectively. A brown guy, traveling alone, tested positive for explosive residue while going through a TSA checkpoint. After some brief questioning, they determined that there was a 99% chance that he wasn't a terrorist. How stupid wou…

But THEY thought it was related to Ramadan.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#593

Post by dsrguru » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 9:58 PM UTC

jonahx wrote: post #545

dsrguru wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if I ever set off the explosive detector, my first reaction wouldn't be how unfair it was that "harried" employees were "rudely" explaining that my options were leaving or a private pat down. That would seem utterly reasonable to me. He was told that leaving was not one of his choices. Even after pointing out the illegality of that to the security official, he was told that if he left, he would forfeit his lugg…

> Also, having his house broken into and possibly bugged does not seem utterly reasonable to me. Now c'mon. By treating this like fact given the evidence from the story, you are engaging in the same unjust leaps and "profiling" that people are accusing the TSA of. No one, including the author, knows what happened to his picture or if any law enforcment agency was involved in its disappearance.

I'm not treating the bugged part as fact. I do believe that there's at least a 99% chance that there was a break-in and that it was related to his interrogation.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#594

Post by projectramo » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 9:58 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #195

chimeracoder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip). Even before this experience I used to avoid flying in favor of taking the train. I don't know what I'd do if the TSA became commonplace at train stations.

Take the bus? Drive?

Across the country for a 7 day event? Seems extreme.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#595

Post by jlgreco » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 9:59 PM UTC

tobiasu wrote: post #531

javajosh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Concentration camp" has been used to describe Nazi death camps for a long time, and has come to be more-or-less synonymous. None of the Japanese camps systematically killed people, as far as I know. Manzanar was an atrocity, but it was not in the same league as Dachau. To call them both by same name is misleading. That said, 'internment camp' sounds far too weak. From what I've read, every piece of property they cou…

Concentration camp (KZ) sounds about right. The term for places like Dachau and Auschwitz is Vernichtungslager (extermination camp). A concentration camp is not set up for industrial mass-murder of its prisoners.

In modern English the distinction is not consistently made. Sometimes you see extermination camps and concentration camps talked about, but other times you see both talked about just as 'concentration camps'.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#596

Post by gyardley » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:01 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #535

jrockway wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things have changed since 9/11. Explosives have gotten smaller and more stable. And nobody checks bags anymore, because it's cheaper to carry them on. So now you have to do the same screening you did before, but in "real time" and looking for something smaller. 9/11 did cause a lot of hysteria, but the risk profile has also changed since then. (Also, if you get TSA Pre, the security standards become essentially what…

First of all: We can agree to disagree and stop this, I guess? At least for me, this will be my last post here. You're a name that comes up a lot here, and frankly I don't want to start a "That's insane" discussion with one of the top HN contributors. I've got no idea what's going on in you to defend that process, I'm certainly surprised to see your "It is necessary" comments in this thread, but .. I guess I leave th…

The political opinions of Hacker News commenters aren't that different from the general public's in their respective nations. There's plenty of people around America, at least, who think the TSA is just fine.

You're surprised by this guy because it's hard to voice certain opinions on certain topics (like the incessant and almost always redundant TSA / NSA / Manning / Snowden coverage) without having someone condescend to you, which gets tiresome quickly. So all the people who agree with him usually don't bother to comment, and often avoid these threads entirely.

In other words, we've just the illusion of conformity around here, and the surprising thing isn't that someone disagrees, it's that they were masochistic enough to start arguing in the first place.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#597

Post by mansr » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

About 6 months ago, I had the explosives detector at SFO flag me as suspect after a random pat-down. What followed was a second, slightly more thorough, pat-down and a very thorough search of my carry-on. It all took about 15 minutes, and the TSA staff were nothing but friendly throughout the procedure.

Whenever you fly, keep two things in mind: 1) the TSA staff are mostly just doing their job, and 2) not all of them are assholes.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#598

Post by venomsnake » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

eksith wrote: post #403

rayiner wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting off an explosives detector isn't reasonable suspicion?

Been there done that. They also asked my religion. I said I'm Buddhist (sort of true, though I'm not a very good one) and after a brief chat, I was sent off with my beans. No pat down, no detention. FYI, If you want to avoid this, handle as few volatile compounds as you can (E.G. Alcohol based products). Better yet, stop using that artificial malarkey altogether. You'll smell less offensive and it would probably be h…

You cannot have true security. You can have acceptable security. The law of diminishing returns kicks very hard after a point.

Basically you should aim to keep terrorism the least of the risks for the society but to accept it as a non zero.

But the moment less people are dying from terrorism than lets say random obscure health condition then the money and resources are better invested elsewhere.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#599

Post by darklajid » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:03 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #584

darklajid wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all: We can agree to disagree and stop this, I guess? At least for me, this will be my last post here. You're a name that comes up a lot here, and frankly I don't want to start a "That's insane" discussion with one of the top HN contributors. I've got no idea what's going on in you to defend that process, I'm certainly surprised to see your "It is necessary" comments in this thread, but .. I guess I leave th…

> this pro-terrorism scheme Care to elaborate?

A tiny, miniscule group of braindead idiots does something awful, once.

The majority of people suffer everyday from thereon because they might potentially be bad guys by bringing more than 100ml of toothpaste.

Mission accomplished.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#600

Post by corresation » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 10:05 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #581

corresation wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have hard data (the actual details are often considered confidential), but for the marketing claims of the various makers who all trumpet greater selectivity and the rejection of false positives. Which makes sense, as security is a huge, incredibly competitive industry, and these people are all competing for the world's paranoia dollars. Because the TSA gained nothing wasting their time on this. There are the…

> I don't have hard data (the actual details are often considered confidential), but for the marketing claims of the various makers who all trumpet greater selectivity and the rejection of false positives. Which makes sense, as security is a huge, incredibly competitive industry, and these people are all competing for the world's paranoia dollars. Putting aside the merit of the idea of that the government bidding pro…

So you're anti-government and cynical. Welcome to about 99% of the online community.

There are people who actually want to blow up planes. There have been a number of attempts. These machines detect the things that are found in bombs.

There are a lot of examples of "security theater" (moreso in the private industry, it should be noted, like the ridiculously useless badges and disaffected employees at most office buildings), but explosives material detectors most certainly are not. One day we'll walk down a Total Recall type hall and it will know who we are and everything on or about us, but until then we have some inconveniences.

And groan, good old Orwell makes a cliched showing. Yes, we all read 1984 in grade school. Pulling it out as a trope to anything the government does (even where entirely rational and related to an actual threat, and overwhelming painless and transparent) is boorish internet pundit behavior.