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Don't Fly During Ramadan

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#331

Post by jey »

corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

> and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed

How is this a reasonable assumption? When the probability of it legitimately going off is so low, most times it actually goes off are probably just false positives.

> being Hindi

"Hindi" is a language, and "Hindu" is the religion.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#332

Post by codezero »

solistice wrote: post #228
foobarbazqux wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently this sophisticated new AI still fails the Turing Test... for now.

I actually tried turing testing chatbots a while ago (chatterbot, jabberwacky, etc.) to see if they've improved. No, they don't pass even remotely, and they all get very offended when you suggest they've failed (Chatterbot quote "Are you insulting me?"). Chatbots have a terrible temper.

It's possible that they trained them against existing Internet comments, which is a fatal flaw :)

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#333

Post by Hannan »

evan_ wrote: post #82
pinaceae wrote: post #56

Contrarian perspective: He fits a certain profile. Triggered a bunch of attributes (address move, chemicals on him, etc.). The 9/11 attackers walked through the scanners with knifes. The Boston bombers were flagged, but still traveled freely. After both attacks people were laughing at the stupidity of the enforcement agencies, uselessness of the TSA, etc. Here, the process worked. His account is subjective, everyone…

What was the purpose of denying him water? Of taking the picture?

>> Of taking the picture?

Zersetzung?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#334

Post by anigbrowl »

mindcrime wrote: post #318
notahacker wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the pertinent detail is the fact the man set of explosive detectors. The other details, far from suggesting oppressive state apparatus, suggested an assortment of rent-a-cops and airline staff that really weren't particularly well-prepared for the guy that couldn't account for the explosives and flagged other profiling alarms without actually giving any indication of being an actual threat. If you want…

In this case, the pertinent detail is the fact the man set of explosive detectors. I'd argue that the pertinent detail is that he wasn't actually carrying any explosives. The other details, far from suggesting oppressive state apparatus, suggested an assortment of rent-a-cops and airline staff that really weren't particularly well-prepared for the guy that couldn't account for the explosives and flagged other profili…

And because he turned out not to be carrying any explosives, he was let go. As above, what would you do if someone set off an explosives detector? Investigations should certainly be conducted politely and respectfully, but at the same time they need to be persistent enough to deal with the attempts of guilty parties to conceal the truth.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#335

Post by [deleted] »

angersock wrote: post #104
jwr wrote: post #73

The land of the free. As I read more and more of those stories I can't help but wonder at how things changed. I am from a formerly-eastern-europe-soviet-bloc country (Poland) and these kinds of oppressive techniques sound very familiar. The haziness of procedures, lack of basic rights, intimidation, no accountability of state officials -- we've seen all that until 1989. At the time, while the communist regime was imp…

I've a friend who spent a good deal of time recently in Khazakhstan, and she was very amused by my attempts to express my fears of the United States becoming an authoritarian police state. She laughed and said that no, I did not understand what it was to have secret police following you about and all these other sorts of issues. The distressing thing is that we've been putting so much machinery into place, and gotten…

[deleted]

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#336

Post by jonahx »

codegeek wrote: post #109
corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

You are missing the point. yes he set off the explosion detector for which he should have been questioned and he was. The issue is how they did it. No water for hours ? You seriously think that it is ok ? The rest 5% decorations that you were talking about is lot more than just decorations.

> No water for hours?

I often go until late afternoon or longer without realizing I haven't had any water to drink. This really doesn't seem that bad. The OP's claim that his mouth was like sandpaper because he hadn't had water for a few hours reads like hyperbole to me.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#337

Post by typon »

jrockway wrote: post #190
jwr wrote: post #73

The land of the free. As I read more and more of those stories I can't help but wonder at how things changed. I am from a formerly-eastern-europe-soviet-bloc country (Poland) and these kinds of oppressive techniques sound very familiar. The haziness of procedures, lack of basic rights, intimidation, no accountability of state officials -- we've seen all that until 1989. At the time, while the communist regime was imp…

I don't think this is that oppressive. He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some ques…

Let me guess, are you white?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#338

Post by DannyBee »

goostavos wrote: post #167
reso wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If I set off an explosive detector, I would expect to have a hard time, too.

I've set off the explosion detector before. I didn't receive anything like what OP did. And honestly, I chalk up a decent amount of that up to having the good luck of being white. I did get pulled into a separate area, and treated like criminal. Two agents stood by me the entire time while another one gave me another pat down. They opened up my backpack and rifled through everything (which was, I think, the most offe…

"I don't think his treatment was in any way justified by setting off an explosive materials detector."

He set it off multiple times. It is likely you didn't. He could not provide current id, anything that showed his current address, anything to prove any part of his story, etc.

Any attempt to prove any part of his story was met with no available info. His answers were plausible, but again, there was simply nothing concrete he could provide to explain anything.

I can understand the amount of questioning and length of time he was put through. I cannot understand the denial of water/etc.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#339

Post by kevinnk »

duggieawesome wrote: post #178
lukeqsee wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment I had never heard of this.

Yeah, it's a part of American history that schools skip quite often.

Really? I just asked 5 people around me. None of them have ever had an American history class that covered WW2 and not cover the internment camps.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#340

Post by btilly »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #216
codegeek wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. yes he set off the explosion detector for which he should have been questioned and he was. The issue is how they did it. No water for hours ? You seriously think that it is ok ? The rest 5% decorations that you were talking about is lot more than just decorations.

The bit that got me as incontrovertibly hilariously-stupid was... they got all upset that he hadn't identified to them that he'd checked some baggage. If the guy is an adversary, you can't rely on him to bring that fact to your attention. If the guy isn't an adversary, his failure to identify it is (by definition) innocent in nature. In neither sense does harassing the guy about it make sense.

They were hoping to use his failure to identify it as proof that he was an adversary.

When it turned out that he had identified it, the person who had hoped that now had egg on his face. (I wouldn't be surprised if in another room they had figured this out as proof so that they could get him.)

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