Don't Fly During Ramadan • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#191

Post by waqf » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

steven777400 wrote: post #137

corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

My bags have set off the explosives detector before, twice. (In both cases, due a heart medication that apparently triggers false positives). I was not taken into a back room or interrogated for hours. They searched me and my bags in more detail, asked some questions, and concluded it must have been a false positive. The experience took about 15 minutes each time. This was a few years back, but I don't recall if it w…

> (In both cases, due a heart medication that apparently triggers false positives).

Presuming that this was nitroglycerin, then in some sense it's not a false positive at all. It's a dessert wax and a floor topping! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitroglycerin

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#192

Post by Tloewald » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #73

The land of the free. As I read more and more of those stories I can't help but wonder at how things changed. I am from a formerly-eastern-europe-soviet-bloc country (Poland) and these kinds of oppressive techniques sound very familiar. The haziness of procedures, lack of basic rights, intimidation, no accountability of state officials -- we've seen all that until 1989. At the time, while the communist regime was imp…

It's an appalling story and the behavior of the TSA is often reprehensible, but seriously -- this is not a fair comparison.

So yes, security guys don't know Hindu from Muslim or Indian from whatever, but it's well-known there is a heightened alert right now, US embassies all over the middle-east and Africa are closed out of security fears, and this guy fit a crude profile AND did something slightly unusual (opted out of a security measure) AND triggered a gas chromatograph AND probably fired off several behavioral red flags. Sucks but it's just Bad Luck.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#193

Post by corresation » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

steven777400 wrote: post #137

corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

My bags have set off the explosives detector before, twice. (In both cases, due a heart medication that apparently triggers false positives). I was not taken into a back room or interrogated for hours. They searched me and my bags in more detail, asked some questions, and concluded it must have been a false positive. The experience took about 15 minutes each time. This was a few years back, but I don't recall if it w…

Extended explosion swabbing -- and improved and more discrete equipment -- came about after the failed attempt to blow up Northwest Airlines Flight 253 to Detroit in 2009 (an almost tragedy that many quickly forget).

In earlier iterations of spam filters, it would simply prefix the subject with [SPAM], just as explosion detectors caught lots of things and they quickly dismissed them. As it got better it started moving them to a spam folder. Now it simply moves them directly to deleted. Of course the same thing happens with explosion detectors, where initially it picked up many similar compounds, and eventually started getting much more discrete, and the probability that it actually caught something of significance went from "not really" to "might actually be something real".

Traveling in 2013 is not the same as traveling in 2002. Traveling in New York City is not the same as traveling in Austrlia. All of these are factors that influence the probability that technology is a viable input, and the corresponding risk factors.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#194

Post by mistercow » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #141

bayesianhorse wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit, the TSA in this case didn't do racial profiling. They skipped that step, and went straight on to "rabid racism". That they apparently had no idea what a Hindu is doesn't make it one bit better.

Did you miss the fact that he triggered the explosive residue detector several times? As the article itself describes... when he skipped the pat-down (and therefore skipped the ERD), no one batted an eye at his race.

So it's OK to be racist if you have another reason to be suspicious?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#195

Post by jrockway » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #185

amirmc wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA does more than just airports "With little fanfare, the agency best known for airport screenings has vastly expanded its reach to sporting events, music festivals, rodeos, highway weigh stations and train terminals." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip). Even before this experience I used to avoid flying in favor of taking the train. I don't know what I'd do if the TSA became commonplace at train stations.

Take the bus? Drive?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#196

Post by Fuzzwah » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

jff wrote: post #77

Fuzzwah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory is a funny thing. You don't recall a snap shot of all the details at once. You start telling a story and during the playback of the memories you'll be able to recall deep details. Reading On Intelligence really solidified my thoughts on how memory (probably) works. http://www.amazon.com/On-Intelligence-Jeff-Hawkins/dp/080507...

Well, as court witnesses often show, you start telling a story and you fill in deep details. Sometimes from memory, sometimes from thin air.

Very good counterpoint. I completely agree. I did say it was a funny thing.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#197

Post by Tichy » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

I must admit the questions of the JetBlue assistant also made me wonder how often they have problems with religious fanatics.

I don't envy the people on either side of that story.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#198

Post by ferdo » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #175

ferdo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: they claimed he triggered the detector. It's not a wise course to take government employees at their word.

'They' also claim the contrails from airliners aren't spreading mind control agents...

I have proof and past experience with dishonest government employees. Please take your arguments for chemtrails elsewhere.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#199

Post by jrockway » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

decktech wrote: post #157

jrockway wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distressing thing is that we've been putting so much machinery into place, and gotten the noose so well fitted, that when the bottom drops out we'll only have the briefest of short, sharp shocks before we find ourselves in a terrifyingly efficient machine of oppression. Or you can take the train.

Is this a joke? I was searched by the TSA the last time I took Amtrak. They just plopped down a table in the middle of Penn Station and went to town.

I'm pretty sure that was the NYPD. Unlike the TSA searches, you can refuse to comply with those.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#200

Post by jgalt212 » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

jgalt212 wrote: post #25

tokenizer wrote: post #18

The United States (Government) are a bunch of unenlightened, racist, xenophobic people bent on oppressing people by treating every non english/anglo-saxon as a terrorist. Please, someone tell me this isn't the case in an absolute sense.

oh, Hi Noam Chomsky.

I lose points every time I criticize Noam Chomsky. Who are the other sacred cows on HN that if you criticize you automatically lose Karma? I'll take a stab:

Noam Chomsky Paul Graham Elon Musk Jeff Bezos