Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't Fly During Ramadan

varnull.adityamukerjee.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 986 posts

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#141

Post by JshWright »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #60
eshvk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular argument against the TSA that I have heard? They spend too much of their time searching the "wrong people". You know the kind that wouldn't "hurt a fly"? Weasel phrases that in essence mean that the TSA should do what Israel does. Racial profiling. Not that they don't do enough of it. At least on paper, they try to mess up that by searching white grandmas from the midwest and little blonde girls. Of…

I admit, the TSA in this case didn't do racial profiling. They skipped that step, and went straight on to "rabid racism". That they apparently had no idea what a Hindu is doesn't make it one bit better.

Did you miss the fact that he triggered the explosive residue detector several times?

As the article itself describes... when he skipped the pat-down (and therefore skipped the ERD), no one batted an eye at his race.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#142

Post by chimeracoder »

ck2 wrote: post #103
corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

How do you know they don't have a button to push to make it give a false positive so they can hold people? Cops have dogs trained to give false positives on signal and we are constantly spied on and lied to by our own intelligence agencies. So please don't tell me this idea is far fetched, I think it's very plausible.

> How do you know they don't have a button to push to make it give a false positive so they can hold people?

That exact thought crossed my mind afterwards.

In the end, they never showed me any evidence that the machine had actually detected any explosive. Nor did they figure out what could have caused the "false positive".

Maybe they did detect something, but then what's equally surprising is the thought that they would then just let someone go after they have walked into JFK with explosives on their body.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#143

Post by manojlds »

corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

Don't forget that his house was potentially searched.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#144

Post by marvin »

Robin_Message wrote: post #95
evan_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the purpose of denying him water? Of taking the picture?

Cynically? That sounds like a standard interrogation technique. Keep them off balance, upset them, try and force them to stop lying so as to get the drink they need (not that the OP was lying).

Now for the next question: Is this a suitable way to interrogate someone who is not under arrest and is presumed innocent? Is the false negative rate of TSA checks low enough to start assuming that someone is guilty?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#145

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

legitsource wrote: post #111
ck2 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know they don't have a button to push to make it give a false positive so they can hold people? Cops have dogs trained to give false positives on signal and we are constantly spied on and lied to by our own intelligence agencies. So please don't tell me this idea is far fetched, I think it's very plausible.

The dogs aren't purposefully trained to give false positives, that's just a side effect of how social dogs are. They want to please their handler and the handler gives them rewards.

The handlers give the dogs false cues, obviously.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#147

Post by skaevola »

hobs wrote: post #121
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered what happens if you set off the detector. The fact is that they allowed him to fly afterwards. Overall it's not so horrible. Assuming the thing about the photo isn't true, of course.

And made him pay an additional 700 dollars and miss his flight. Huge hassle as far as I can tell. If you detained and questioned an innocent man and ruined his day costing him a weeks wages for some, wouldn't you do SOMETHING to make up for it? A decent person would, a bureaucratic organization that is not held accountable sure wont.

It was the airline which denied him the flight, not the TSA.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#148

Post by JshWright »

kghose wrote: post #135

If they denied you water for 18 hours, you have a lawsuit. Get hold of a lawyer. What I can't understand is why they were so motivated that they had people doing leg work - they had field agents check you out, go to your apartment. That's a lot of effort in contrast to an electronic trawl of your records. You must have really scared them. I really wonder what chemical it was that showed up on the sensor...

They didn't deny him water for 18 hours. The '18 hour' clock started when he ate dinner the night before.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#149

Post by pyvek »

lukeqsee wrote: post #27
fsckin wrote: post #14

>In all my life, I have only felt that same chilling terror once before - on one cold night in September twelve years ago, when I huddled in bed and tried to forget the terrible events in the news that day, wondering why they they had happened, wondering whether everything would be okay ever again. Wow... just wow.

Perhaps the terrorists knew this would happen all along. They knew our paranoia would surpass any efforts they could ever hope accomplish. Instead of terrorizing a few thousand, they could terrorize a whole nation—daily and officially. It's brilliant and pathetic at the same time.

    Terrorism isn't a crime against people or property. It's a crime against our minds, using the death of innocents and destruction of property to make us fearful. Terrorists use the media to magnify their actions and further spread fear. And when we react out of fear, when we change our policy to make our country less open, the terrorists succeed -- even if their attacks fail.

    – Bruce Schneier

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#150

Post by walls »

steven777400 wrote: post #137
corresation wrote: post #72

It is a terrible ordeal, but for all of the other factors brought up the critical factor is that he set off an explosion detector (and clearly it doesn't get false positives often given the response they showed). Everything else (about Ramadan, being Hindi, the color of one's skin, etc) may be nothing more than decorations, and no one here knows what would happen if John Smith Anglosaxon set off the same detector in…

My bags have set off the explosives detector before, twice. (In both cases, due a heart medication that apparently triggers false positives). I was not taken into a back room or interrogated for hours. They searched me and my bags in more detail, asked some questions, and concluded it must have been a false positive. The experience took about 15 minutes each time. This was a few years back, but I don't recall if it w…

I don't think any airports had 'explosive detectors' before 9/11.
Post reply on HN