Don't Fly During Ramadan • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#51

Post by seiji » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:47 PM UTC

Initial thoughts:

It sounds like the phone was nearby during this entire inexcusable ordeal. Too bad it wasn't recording the entire time.

The names of everybody involved in detaining or interviewing or interrogating should be released and they should explain from their point of view.

How can we stop the TSA from thinking religious boom boom terrorism is a real thing in the US when it obviously isn't?

[Sidenote: I've had the "uncontrollable shaking without being cold" thing before too (due to lack of food). It's really bad. Only solution is to eat something immediately. The shakes should go away within 30 seconds. I imagine if you let them continue for more than a few minutes, you'll collapse/blackout/seize/Something Bad™.]

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#52

Post by chimeracoder » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

onli wrote: post #42

What I don't understand: If you are detained for several hours, why don't people call a lawyer? Why did he speak to the police (end even the FBI!) without legal counsel?

As I mentioned in the post, they claimed I "wasn't being detained". I asked more than once to use my phone; they denied me.

Maybe I could make that more clear.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#53

Post by lambda » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:49 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #10

eshvk wrote: post #6

This makes me so angry. This was one of the reasons I got out of consulting. Every fucking time, I would get an enhanced check. Surprisingly enough, it is nothing new. This is something you face if you are a minority. Hell, I remember a friend from back in Africa whose dad got blacklisted in the nineties because he had a beard. Brown catholic guy with a beard got blacklisted. The only difference now is that at least…

[deleted]

My reading was that as a consultant, he had to fly more often.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#54

Post by dictum » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:49 PM UTC

This is a manifestation of the US institutionalized xenophobia.

Good manners and taste should keep me from using this submission as another soapbox against how the US views foreigners, but when you see foreigners as enemies, a citizen who looks or acts vaguely "foreign"— I can't offer a precise definition of what "looking foreign" entails, but it's a combination of being a part of a small demographic group, and being a part of an ethnicity that is regularly caricatured in the media and in public discourse—will be treated with the same respect and care dispensed to a real foreigner.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#55

Post by niuzeta » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:49 PM UTC

I'm boycotting Jet Blue.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#56

Post by pinaceae » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

Contrarian perspective: He fits a certain profile. Triggered a bunch of attributes (address move, chemicals on him, etc.).

The 9/11 attackers walked through the scanners with knifes.

The Boston bombers were flagged, but still traveled freely.

After both attacks people were laughing at the stupidity of the enforcement agencies, uselessness of the TSA, etc.

Here, the process worked.

His account is subjective, everyone else is an idiot, he's way smarter than them, gets offended by simple questions about religion, etc. OK, good for him. The more you push back, the more self righteous and arrogant you are during security checks, the deeper you're digging yourself in. Those people are doing their jobs. Same with how you should be treating waiters, etc.

JetBlue has the right to deny you a flight. ElAl does this all the time, incl. racial profiling. Good security track record.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#57

Post by at-fates-hands » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

drivingmenuts wrote: post #5

SlyShy wrote: post #2

This is pretty harrowing to read. I've been fortunate enough to never go through any of this (but I don't _look_ like a 'terrorist'). I think America needs to take a hard look at itself and the compromises it has made on civil liberties in the name of this supposed 'safety' that we have now.

Sadly, I lack the faith that such re-examination of our country will happen anytime soon. The inmates are in charge of the asylum and replacing them is going to take decades.

The only way the people take this country back is to start a third party. A REAL third party, somewhere between the moderate liberals and the libertarians.

Without any outside competition, it's just recycling the same type of candidates, with the same policies and with the same disregard for basic civil liberties.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#58

Post by theg2 » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

tokenizer wrote: post #18

The United States (Government) are a bunch of unenlightened, racist, xenophobic people bent on oppressing people by treating every non english/anglo-saxon as a terrorist. Please, someone tell me this isn't the case in an absolute sense.

It's not, its a government of people and people have varying opinions, both correct and incorrect that drive their actions.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#59

Post by seehafer » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

lukeqsee wrote: post #41

eshvk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular argument against the TSA that I have heard? They spend too much of their time searching the "wrong people". You know the kind that wouldn't "hurt a fly"? Weasel phrases that in essence mean that the TSA should do what Israel does. Racial profiling. Not that they don't do enough of it. At least on paper, they try to mess up that by searching white grandmas from the midwest and little blonde girls. Of…

I've heard the same arguments. Sadly, I have no good answer for how the TSA should do their job. However, treating someone rudely and, to an extent, inhumanly, doesn't fit the bill.

Israeli-style random questioning in all airports, conducted by highly-trained experts (not rent-a-cops), in conjunction with profiling.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#60

Post by bayesianhorse » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

eshvk wrote: post #35

lukeqsee wrote: post #7

Most striking and appalling is the lack of common sense and basic empathy throughout this whole ordeal. For example, he asked multiple times for water , a basic necessity for life, and was denied multiple times. That can't be rationalized in anyway—what did they expect, him to drown someone? His requests as to the nature of his detention were denied. His rights to privacy were utterly ignored. And it goes on… We need…

The most popular argument against the TSA that I have heard? They spend too much of their time searching the "wrong people". You know the kind that wouldn't "hurt a fly"? Weasel phrases that in essence mean that the TSA should do what Israel does. Racial profiling. Not that they don't do enough of it. At least on paper, they try to mess up that by searching white grandmas from the midwest and little blonde girls. Of…

I admit, the TSA in this case didn't do racial profiling. They skipped that step, and went straight on to "rabid racism".

That they apparently had no idea what a Hindu is doesn't make it one bit better.