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Four fears for authoritarians

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Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#81

Post by asgard1024 »

mseebach wrote: post #74
jnbiche wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The secrecy there is in place today is all "operational", there are no other kinds. Are you seriously saying that all of today's classified documents relate to ongoing operations? They still classify stuff from WWII. And huge amounts of material relating to technologies unrelated to any operations imaginable (like CRM systems) are classified. I urge you to read the Washington Post's series on government secrecy from…

No, I'm saying that the people who decide that things should be and/or remain classified will say that it's for operational reasons. WWII was definitely an operation, although it's a long time ago, and it's hard to imagine what might still be relevant to keep classified. If an intelligence organisation procures a CRM for keeping track of operations, and the public tender document says that it must be able to handle 2…

"the public tender document says that it must be able to handle 250 operations a month, then they've leaked some potentially sensitive information"

Maybe you could elaborate on how exactly this is sensitive? (Then we can have discussion about whether or not it's worth to divulge it publicly.) I mean, how does it help criminals to know that your police force has X million policemen? They will have to deal with it anyway.

Unless you are in state of war, and have a single enemy, then such information is not of much help to anyone. However, it can show if the money are spent efficiently. We can look at cases resolved/worked on during the previous time period and compare it with spending.

I claim savings due to these records being public will outweigh an advantage of any enemy knowing things like these. Just like democracies with all the public information about government spending economically beat dictatorships keeping these things secret.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#82

Post by kanz »

jstalin wrote: post #75

I'm reminded of a George Washington quote: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." In other words, government is, at its bare naked minimum, the monopoly of force. It must be contained, mistrusted, and treated as a necessary evil. Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who…

"Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who gave us the bill of rights. Without them, we would be much worse off today than we are."

The current administration and the previous administrations don't care about the Bill of Rights.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#83

Post by presidentender »

jstalin wrote: post #75

I'm reminded of a George Washington quote: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." In other words, government is, at its bare naked minimum, the monopoly of force. It must be contained, mistrusted, and treated as a necessary evil. Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who…

Hamilton argued that the very existence of the bill of rights invited the expansion of government into all those areas not expressly forbidden therein, but one might question Hamilton's motivations.

That Washington 'quote' cannot be found before 1902. I agree with the sentiment, but false attribution does nothing to help our credibility.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#84

Post by hyperventilator »

hahainternet wrote: post #60
marvin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech does imply that people will say unpopular things. And Westboro Babtist Church does fall under this protection. Regarding extrajudicial consequences of e.g. whistleblowing in the private sector, I think that this area needs explicit protections since the consequences of pissing someone off are so severe. (From what I gather, whistleblowing against a US employer is more or less career suicide). It goe…

> And Westboro Babtist Church does fall under this protection Not in the first world.

Yeah, in some parts of the "first world" you can do prison time for a tweet.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#85

Post by hyperventilator »

Cakez0r wrote: post #37
TeMPOraL wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rewatch "V for Vendetta" and apply.

Whenever I've asked this same question, there are always a few who say "stop being complacent, get out and become an anarchist" but that is completely unfeasible for most individuals. Becoming a radical requires a complete and fundamental lifestyle change. That's not something that the general population can get on board with. I'm yet to find a good way to incite change without having to dedicate your life to a cause…

Only unhappy men volunteer for war.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#86

Post by ahallock »

snitko wrote: post #31
andreasklinger wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if everyone already realised that it's not about terrorism but doesn't know how to act and therefore falls into cynicism? If anyone knows what to do please step up and lead I am happy to follow.

Kinda simple. We finance this bullshit by paying taxes. Why do we pay them? Because they force us to and convince us it's a good idea. What do we do about it? Use any form of money that is problematic to track and tax: cash, gold, Bitcoin. Pretty sure it's possible to live just on that - would be a little uncomfortable, but certainly less so than some violent action. And it would be a major blow to the government if…

Totally agree. We need to find non-violent solutions to problems. Most importantly, though, we need to show what living peacefully looks like. People like the tangible. We can argue in the abstract all day long, but people are easily turned off by that and cling to ideology and propaganda. Show, don't tell.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#87

Post by agilord »

andreasklinger wrote: post #15
scrrr wrote: post #7

Yep, see what happened in the Arabic countries (and some other countries outside of the Islam-sphere). People organised to protest using the Internet. People get educated using the Internet. In Cuba they exchange information using thumb drives. And every bullshitter (= our governments) should be afraid of it. They are, of course. And surveillance is their reaction. What will help is if everyone finally realises that…

What if everyone already realised that it's not about terrorism but doesn't know how to act and therefore falls into cynicism? If anyone knows what to do please step up and lead I am happy to follow.

We definitely need educators with good communication skills and sensitive social approach. They need to explain to the greater public why this matters and what they can do about it. They need to get over the threshold of "this is conspiracy nuts, leave me alone". This is the most disturbing thing I've seen: people see some of the facts, and they decide that it is paranoia.

If we have the educators, we need to advertise them to extreme limit, ensuring that everyone gets their message at least five times in some format.

The topic is really hard, because one needs to crush various myths: - that we can be safe, no matter what, - that the people in government are good and honest, - that it can happen to them and not only to others...

... while you keep their engagement level and focus up.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#88

Post by AJ007 »

kanz wrote: post #82
jstalin wrote: post #75

I'm reminded of a George Washington quote: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." In other words, government is, at its bare naked minimum, the monopoly of force. It must be contained, mistrusted, and treated as a necessary evil. Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who…

"Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who gave us the bill of rights. Without them, we would be much worse off today than we are." The current administration and the previous administrations don't care about the Bill of Rights.

Fortunately we have a legal system that, to some degree, does. Thus the outrage over secret courts which wave everything through (and the disturbance that a single unelected Supreme Court justice is responsible for the secret kangaroo court's appointments.)

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#89

Post by Nursie »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #20
tlarkworthy wrote: post #6

If anyone knew the most effective way for us UK citizens to stop our government from making irreversible constitutional mistakes I would be highly grateful for the information.

Rewatch "V for Vendetta" and apply.

V is a cartoon, not really a serious discussion or useful guide to much. IMHO.

Re: Four fears for authoritarians

#90

Post by Nursie »

snitko wrote: post #35
Cakez0r wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be impossible in the UK. Salary is paid directly into one's bank account and tax is deducted before it even gets there.

Ask your employer if he can pay you in cash or Bitcoin off the record. If you're a business, sell for bitcoins and give discounts, certainly pay employees in Bitcoin if they ask you to. As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned. Even if there was, it'd be prohibitively expensive for government to track everyone's Bitcoin addresses (data mining on the blockchain is ce…

>>As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned.

Tax is payable on anything earned. This is an invitation to arrest and tax evasion charges.

BTC is also a fundamentally bad idea for an economy.

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