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German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

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Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#111

Post by kintamanimatt »

catnaroek wrote: post #110
kintamanimatt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really use OpenOffice apps frequently (LaTeX FTW!), but OO doesn't suck. Photoshop beats the pants off GIMP, unfortunately.

OpenOffice/LibreOffice suck for what I do with Office: Write scripts that exchange data with other applications, in particular, operations research software. It is a pity, because Python is a superior scripting language than VBA, but for the most part, developers of optimization and simulation packages have voted with their feet to make it easier for their programs to exchange data with Excel and Access, not with OO/…

Thing is, it's use cases like this that are hindering adoption of Linux on the desktop, and I feel sad that these points of friction still exist; they shouldn't. We need, in part, widespread adoption of free, open source software to help maintain privacy, personal security, and freedom. It's use cases like yours that need to be taken into account and accommodated. Until this happens, and migrating to something like Ubuntu is problem-free and frictionless, our computers aren't free, and we, as a society are less free and more vulnerable to malicious government entities. Also, the era of the cloud as we know it has to end!

I see you're new too! Welcome to HN! :-)

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#112

Post by AsymetricCom »

amanne wrote: post #63
Udo wrote: post #54

Translation (it's a very long-winded article with many repetitions, I left some passages out): How trustworthy is Microsoft? This is the question that concerns the Federal Administration and other German government agencies, as well as companies and private users who might want to use the Windows operation system now and in the future. Sooner or later they will be forced to use Windows 8 or its successor. According t…

It's funny how Windows 8 is singled out as if other Windows versions are any better. Windows 7 can be securely used till 2020? That's the cut off date for updates from MS. The same MS that the article says " For the user there is simply no way to tell what exactly Microsoft does to their system through remote updates." The above is true of Apple and Google, but it is glossed over. First, I fail to see any relevance o…

Windows 8 features MS's version of Apple-style walled garden app infrastructure, which is in turn protected by hardware TPM. Windows 7 can be installed without this hardware support, but will utilize it when available (by securing signed drivers). Windows 8 doesn't require TPM (yet), Windows 9 has been in development since before the release of 7. TPM support was introduced as a core component in Vista, iirc.

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#113

Post by catnaroek »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #111
catnaroek wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenOffice/LibreOffice suck for what I do with Office: Write scripts that exchange data with other applications, in particular, operations research software. It is a pity, because Python is a superior scripting language than VBA, but for the most part, developers of optimization and simulation packages have voted with their feet to make it easier for their programs to exchange data with Excel and Access, not with OO/…

Thing is, it's use cases like this that are hindering adoption of Linux on the desktop, and I feel sad that these points of friction still exist; they shouldn't. We need, in part, widespread adoption of free, open source software to help maintain privacy, personal security, and freedom. It's use cases like yours that need to be taken into account and accommodated. Until this happens, and migrating to something like U…

> Thing is, it's use cases like this that are hindering adoption of Linux on the desktop, and I feel sad that these points of friction still exist; they shouldn't.

I am a happy Arch user at home. There is no non-free software installed on my personal machine. Even for my operations research work, when I do it using my machine, I prefer using free software (e.g., GLPK for optimization and Aivika for simulation) over the proprietary alternatives, because free software developers do not pull crap like "The professional edition can only run models with up to 2000 variables. If you need more, buy the enterprise edition."

Sadly, at work I do not get to pick what tools I use. Customers do not want to give up Excel and the proprietary software designed to interact / exchange data with it.

In any case, my original comment ("OpenOffice/LibreOffice suck for what I do with Office") was not meant to be a characterization of free software in general.

> We need, in part, widespread adoption of free, open source software to help maintain privacy, personal security, and freedom. (...)

Five years ago or so, I might have dismissed you as a lunatic; but, these days, I find myself increasingly agreeing with this point of view. I have seen OS X evolve from a somewhat restrictive but overall very convenient OS (Leopard and Snow Leopard) to an OS openly designed to limited what users can or cannot do (Lion, I have not used Mountain Lion). Windows has undergone a similar path (beginning with the Windows Genuine Advantage thing).

It is quite a feat that proprietary software has become so restrictive that I, someone who still does not place software freedom too high in his priority list, actively seek to use free software over its proprietary counterparts.

> (...) Also, the era of the cloud as we know it has to end!

Word!

> I see you're new too! Welcome to HN! :-)

Thanks! :-)

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#114

Post by kintamanimatt »

catnaroek wrote: post #113
kintamanimatt wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, it's use cases like this that are hindering adoption of Linux on the desktop, and I feel sad that these points of friction still exist; they shouldn't. We need, in part, widespread adoption of free, open source software to help maintain privacy, personal security, and freedom. It's use cases like yours that need to be taken into account and accommodated. Until this happens, and migrating to something like U…

> Thing is, it's use cases like this that are hindering adoption of Linux on the desktop, and I feel sad that these points of friction still exist; they shouldn't. I am a happy Arch user at home. There is no non-free software installed on my personal machine. Even for my operations research work, when I do it using my machine, I prefer using free software (e.g., GLPK for optimization and Aivika for simulation) over t…

> Five years ago or so, I might have dismissed you as a lunatic

Six months ago I'd have dismissed me as a lunatic too! Stallman, whether by luck or foresight, was right.

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#115

Post by bskap »

acqq wrote: post #73
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had Windows 8 RTM installed on an old ThinkPad that I eventually wiped clean and put Ubuntu on. Granted its not a new laptop with Windows 8, but still, its not impossible to install Linux on a Win 8 laptop.

The notebook hardware made for Windows 8 behaves differently than all PC hardware before. It's irrelevant that the old ThinkPad works, it didn't magically change because the new software arrived.

No it doesn't. There were plenty of pre-Win 8 motherboards that had UEFI on there. Apple's been using it in their computers since the Intel switch in 2006. I don't know what you think is going on with your computer, but every other Windows 8 computer I've touched behaves identically to all other PCs, with the exception that Secure Boot is turned on by default.

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#116

Post by acqq »

bskap wrote: post #115
acqq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notebook hardware made for Windows 8 behaves differently than all PC hardware before. It's irrelevant that the old ThinkPad works, it didn't magically change because the new software arrived.

No it doesn't. There were plenty of pre-Win 8 motherboards that had UEFI on there. Apple's been using it in their computers since the Intel switch in 2006. I don't know what you think is going on with your computer, but every other Windows 8 computer I've touched behaves identically to all other PCs, with the exception that Secure Boot is turned on by default.

I talk about the new Windows 8 notebooks not "motherboards."

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#117

Post by mpyne »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #101
mpyne wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming you're not a computer, have you tried using context clues to figure out what the author might have meant? This isn't Reddit, we don't need grammar Nazis or joke threads here.

wasn't a grammar issue, it was that the middle of the sentence seemed to be missing and that it was confusing enough that I thought it useful to point out, and now it is fixed and makes sense to people, yayy :)

Sorry for my misunderstanding then, glad it's worked out for all involved. :)

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#118

Post by orionblastar »

I tried my hand at Translating the article here: http://www.greatdox.com/windows8/

Sorry for any errors in Grammar or mistranslations. I also don't claim the technical 'facts' in the article are true, but they are what the original article was stating.

A link back to Hacker News on this thread and other related links. Plus a link to Lunubtu and Linux.org at the end.

Please ignore my affiliate links near the bottom, I am having problems finding a job, and paying for web hosting, etc. Most people don't click on them anyway, and the entire web page is text no javascript, no images, no pop-ups, etc.

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#119

Post by bskap »

acqq wrote: post #116
bskap wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. There were plenty of pre-Win 8 motherboards that had UEFI on there. Apple's been using it in their computers since the Intel switch in 2006. I don't know what you think is going on with your computer, but every other Windows 8 computer I've touched behaves identically to all other PCs, with the exception that Secure Boot is turned on by default.

I talk about the new Windows 8 notebooks not "motherboards."

Notebooks use motherboards, just like desktops do. And they run the same firmware. Apple's Macbooks have shipped with EFI since 2006.

Re: German government warns Windows 8 is a security risk

#120

Post by marvin »

progman wrote: post #41
grobmeier wrote: post #12

2013, it's the post-snowden era. We don't have a cold war any more, but the level of spying is unbelievable. I am currently moving out my emails from GMail and installed PGP. At the moment I am using OSX since I do for years. But in the end the only "safe" way to protect your business and privacy is to use Linux/Unix. The FSF said it for years; the german CCC told us for years. I admit, I didn't believe it's so bad.…

It is even worse. The attempt to escape into OSS/Linux is a step in the right direction. But as long as we are dependent on mass consumer hardware then there is always a risk of being spied through hardware backdoors. In this case it doesn't matter which software we use. Even encryption is useless. It is NOT enough to avoid Windows 8 because the real problem is modern hardware that uses Trusted Computing chips. Trust…

Do you have any more information about the use of Trusted Computing/the Trusted Platform Module to remotely run arbitrary code on a victim's computer? This is news to me.
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