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We Need To Talk, Google

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Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#161

Post by dredmorbius »

jerf wrote: post #64
darklajid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to. The single thing I struggle with? Android. Maybe Firefox OS will be interesting, iOS isn't. And .. right now I can pay for Android apps, but I'm banned from rate them, comment on them. Ignoring all the 'Do you want to be tracked to provide Better Services (tm)" stuff in that ecosystem.

Somewhat ironically, I had a Google account already (albeit only lightly used, losing Reader killed ~95% of the utility for me), but when I got my Android phone, it simply refused to link to it. I think perhaps because I didn't have GMail? To be honest the error messages were never that clear to me. So instead of linking in my "real" Google account, I had to create a new one. One I never browse with, one that has no…

That anonymous account knows where you live, who you talk to, where you go, what you read online, ...

Linking it to your legal identity isn't hard. Data show that just two ZIP Codes (in the US) can indentify an individual with 95% accuracy: your home and workplace.

Makes me want to rightgrade to an uncontracted dumbphone and a custom-ROMed tablet. Not linked to any Google accounts.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#162

Post by MichaelGG »

r00fus wrote: post #111
MichaelGG wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Android's still the only really reasonable choice. Apple and MS are far more restrictive on the devices, and nothing seems to come close to the Nexus line of devices anyways. It's pretty annoying that I can't rate apps I buy though.

Is privacy and device restrictiveness the same thing? I don't want "open" necessarily, I want "respect" (for my privacy). Unless you're going to inspect all the code/apps running on your system, an open-source OS isn't necessarily going to guarantee your privacy.

You're right, it's not. I don't really care about open source. I don't trust Google and I don't like their intrusive tactics. I'd actually feel more comfortable with Microsoft, as they probably have more layers of management preventing stuff getting done. I can't believe the part of the company that mismanaged the largest IM network into nothingness is competent enough to really invade my privacy to a disturbing degree.

More what I care about is making sure I can run software I'm interested in, and have my device do what I want it to do. Tethering (on a phone) regardless of carrier policy, for instance. Apps that might violate store policy -- I simply don't have the potential worry with Android.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#163

Post by yuhong »

ballard wrote: post #89
petitbeurre wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument, though, makes no sense at all. I'm a homosexual, and living in a very conservative and homophobic part of France. I don't want any things related to homosexuality and the lgbt community posted under my real identity, because then any member of my family or any of my friends could stumble upon it and make problematical deductions. Does that mean that I shouldn't be involved online in the lgbt community…

Anonimity is a basic human right that one should be free to exercise at any time. Without it, those in power or those crazies out there that have nothing better can easily find something to attack those they don't like. This is not the providence of "something to hide" but that people should be secure with certainty against all forms of intrusion that lacks probable cause. Anonymity is difficult for naïve people to u…

Agreed, but there is something wrong if people have to use it all the time.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#164

Post by interpol_p »

I found the way Google dealt with YouTube logins to be pretty horrendous.

For a long time YouTube kept asking me to associate a google account with my YouTube user ID. So I gave in and tried to do that.

I tried to use one of my three other gmail addresses — no, that doesn't work because they were existing Google accounts. I had to create a brand new gmail address just to associate with my YouTube user ID.

I also keep forgetting the email address I used to associate with that ID. They have user name recovery, password recovery, but not email-associated-with-username recovery.

The whole experience was drawn out and terrible.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#165

Post by kenko »

VikingCoder wrote: post #84
kenko wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"thing I use to send email" and "thing I use to watch music videos" are not conceptually distinct? Most users would send as emails to others the kinds of things they leave as comments on youtube?

The word "I" showed up in both of those sentences. To most users, unifying all of their data adds a lot of value. Google reads my GMails from major airlines, and shows me when my next flight is when I Google Search for "when is my next flight". The flight also just pops up on Google Now on my Android phone. It also knows where I am, and where the airport is, so it tells me how long it will take to drive there. When I…

"The word "I" showed up in both of those sentences. To most users, unifying all of their data adds a lot of value."

So you want your every identity online to be tied together? Your usenet posts to alt.sex.hello-kitty, your responses to ads on Craigslist, your interactions with old friends on facebook, your interactions with professional contacts on linkedin (if you use it), your interactions on some neighborhood blog, your political commentary on some political blog, whatever?

After all, if you were describing all of them, you'd use the word "I"!

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#166

Post by radnom »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #45

This is just one of the many issues with Google products these days. I dread using anything from Google because of the confusing accounts mess, the language and localization chaos, the forced de-anonimization, the consistent ignoring of explicitly set preferences and the countless bugs in all of those. The way I feel about using Google services today mirrors how I felt about Windows a decade ago. You start out trying…

Pretty sure that performing a google search is just as easy today as it ever was.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#167

Post by VikingCoder »

kenko wrote: post #165
VikingCoder wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "I" showed up in both of those sentences. To most users, unifying all of their data adds a lot of value. Google reads my GMails from major airlines, and shows me when my next flight is when I Google Search for "when is my next flight". The flight also just pops up on Google Now on my Android phone. It also knows where I am, and where the airport is, so it tells me how long it will take to drive there. When I…

"The word "I" showed up in both of those sentences. To most users, unifying all of their data adds a lot of value." So you want your every identity online to be tied together? Your usenet posts to alt.sex.hello-kitty, your responses to ads on Craigslist, your interactions with old friends on facebook, your interactions with professional contacts on linkedin (if you use it), your interactions on some neighborhood blog…

So, the only reasonable interpretation of my position is to carry it to the ridiculous extreme?

Or do you acknowledge that there's clearly a balance of benefit and pain, and Google is merely slightly to the wrong side of where you'd want them to be?

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#168

Post by chrismonsanto »

mbell wrote: post #160
bambax wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find value in these things Well then good for you, and you should be able to merge all your accounts with Google into one; but why should this be almost compulsory? What's more, if there's so much value into this, why does Google have to force its users to do it?

> Well then good for you, and you should be able to merge all your accounts with Google into one; but why should this be almost compulsory? Quite often here on Hacker News we sit around and talk about how removing features or options from an App is often the best thing to do for usability. I think this is true. At the same time every time this comes up with regards to Google or some other large company the response f…

"I'm annoyed at YouTube for bothering me to use my real name" is not exclusively an HN thing. Most content creators in the video game community who publish on YT do it under an alias, or under an account representing their website/community. For us, YT's failure to separate personal accounts from organization/business accounts (the main complaint in the article) is a constant problem.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#169

Post by VikingCoder »

periferral wrote: post #139
VikingCoder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banana72 shared a YouTube video with you...? What the hell? Banana72...? Oh, right, on YouTube VikingCoder is called Banana72. I think you're asking for a feature which would confuse the hell out of most users.

I don't disagree with your sentiment so I had to go back and re-read the OPs thoughts. I think he had a Group Youtube channel. He logged in using his individual account onto his Group Youtube channel and it linked his individual G+ to the group Youtube. When he unlinked this, it disable his Group Youtube. I think this is pretty serious stuff. If youtube allows you to group individual accounts, then you dont want to l…

It's a transition time. They're making the right choices. It's unfortunate that the transition from the current state to the new state is painful.

Ultimately, do you agree with the direction, and can you forgive them for the missteps?

I mean, how many times was "re-install Microsoft Windows, and all of your applications" the only option?

I get that it's painful for some people, and I don't mean to diminish that. But my God, this guy wasted an entire afternoon on configuring his free service.

Re: We Need To Talk, Google

#170

Post by RexRollman »

pdonis wrote: post #118
Sami_Lehtinen wrote: post #2

For some reasons, I actually do agree. My dad just yesterday enjoyed some hard time trying to get even simple services like Gmail to work. Because he knew how to use it earlier, but now things works differently than they used to. Cloud services, nice, you'll get always latest version. But what if the latest version simply isn't something you want?

But what if the latest version simply isn't something you want? Exactly. Even worse, what if the old version was what you wanted, and now it's gone? For example, Google's book reader on Android. I started using it frequently about 6 months ago. Since then, every UI change they have made has made the experience worse for me. The only reason I still use it is that it does have one big advantage over the other readers I…

I know how you feel. Gmail's interface has become incredibly complicated and every change feels like a step backward.

But as much as I don't care for Gmail's current interface, I can't and don't expect Google to support older web interfaces. If I really wanted interface consistency, I would run my own mail client.

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