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Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

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Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#21

Post by erikpukinskis »

dibbsonline wrote: post #11

Why aren't there more ? female bricklayers male seamstresses and on and on and on. Is it really a problem? People do what they want, less women want to program, I see no problem with this.

> People do what they want, less women want to program

Fewer women want to program because they're taught from a very young age that they can't.

As a result, we're losing out on a bunch of great programmers, which I think is a loss. I also think it's sad that girls are made to feel like these things are off-limits to them. I think the world would be a better place if every kid thought they could do whatever job they wanted to.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#22

Post by mindrag »

wpietri wrote: post #15
Sandman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I always wondered whether one of the main reasons why there are less female than male programmers is that, well, most women simply prefer other professions.

Simply prefer? That's a rug under which you can sweep quite a bit. Suppose that 200 years ago you took a poll and most women "simply preferred" not to vote. What does that tell you about whether the womens' suffrage movement was right or wrong?

The comparison doesn't seem applicable here. Women's suffrage was about gaining a right that was, at that time, forbidden. Preference shouldn't play a role in basic rights, but it certainly plays a role in an individual's choice of career.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#23

Post by [deleted] »

wpietri wrote: post #6
georgiecasey wrote: post #3

oh great, it's this thread again

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

[deleted]

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#24

Post by wpietri »

Killswitch wrote: post #9
madao wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally and wholeheartedly agree, I do not think gender has anything to do with it. It should be more about a willingness to learn and an interest in the subject.

Agreed. If woman want to be programmers they will. It's just that men gravitate towards it more... I don't see anybody writing articles titled "Why aren't more men playing with barbies and makeup?" Edit: not saying men don't. I grew up in a household of girls. I DID play with barbies. Not makeup though.

If you think it's a problem that men aren't playing with makeup, write the article. Or heck, just read one of the ones that Google will find you.

Also, note that "it's just that men gravitate towards it more" is not an explanation. It's a way of avoiding actually thinking about the topic. Gravity is about mass, not gender.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#25

Post by unimpressive »

wpietri wrote: post #15
Sandman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I always wondered whether one of the main reasons why there are less female than male programmers is that, well, most women simply prefer other professions.

Simply prefer? That's a rug under which you can sweep quite a bit. Suppose that 200 years ago you took a poll and most women "simply preferred" not to vote. What does that tell you about whether the womens' suffrage movement was right or wrong?

>Suppose that 200 years ago you took a poll and most women "simply preferred" not to vote. What does that tell you about whether the womens' suffrage movement was right or wrong?

A better comparison would be if most women didn't vote even though they could. (Because of thugs at the booth perhaps?)

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#26

Post by cousin_it »

wpietri wrote: post #6
georgiecasey wrote: post #3

oh great, it's this thread again

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

If you want to prove that fewer women than men become programmers because of obstacles, it's not enough to point out the obstacles faced by women, you also need to argue that the obstacles faced by men are less severe. I think you'll have a hard time arguing that, considering how nerdy guys are treated in school by both girls and other guys. Girls who go into programming don't take such a big hit in attractiveness.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#27

Post by wpietri »

mindrag wrote: post #22
wpietri wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply prefer? That's a rug under which you can sweep quite a bit. Suppose that 200 years ago you took a poll and most women "simply preferred" not to vote. What does that tell you about whether the womens' suffrage movement was right or wrong?

The comparison doesn't seem applicable here. Women's suffrage was about gaining a right that was, at that time, forbidden. Preference shouldn't play a role in basic rights, but it certainly plays a role in an individual's choice of career.

Voting is a basic right now, but apparently it wasn't then. That might tell you something.

But if you really can't get the point without a more specific analogy, try doctors. Or going to college.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#28

Post by joyeuse6701 »

wpietri wrote: post #6
georgiecasey wrote: post #3

oh great, it's this thread again

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

Given how many times this has come up on this site, it is becoming more akin to beating a dead horse and may serve to simply annoy and hurt the 'women in tech movement' if you will, than help it. I have yet to see proof of causation between male social tendencies in tech industry and a barrier to entry for women in tech industries. Anecdotes are not substantial. As you say, so what? Does it all have to be about you?

I have a hunch that on account of the fact that your cousin is female and has engineering proclivities that you will give her significant unabated attention, hell you swore before God...This all really because she is female regardless if reality requires extra help or not (unproven as of yet). I'm pretty sure that's sexist entitlement.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#29

Post by unimpressive »

I remember when I went to interview to get into a computer repair class at the nearby trade school. Right before the interview a girl walked in and the instructor (who was herself a woman) immediately said "Oh my god, a girl!" (Or something else that was similarly disparaging. It's hard to remember now.)

After the interview I asked why she said that, and her reply was something to the effect of 'I have to prepare her for how the boys will act.'. It was a significant factor in my decision not to go.

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