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Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

math.ucr.edu

11–20 of 139 posts

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#11
post #7

So, the FTL gravity pulses used in David Weber's Honorverse series (sci-fi space opera) aren't possible. :(

But maybe a "warp drive" is?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6238297

...so then we still get to achieve an effective result of reaching a destination faster than light.

...and since the gravity warps space, and the warp drive exploits warped space, does that mean that the quantum mechanism behind the warp drive is somehow directly related to gravity?

  the ring would contain exotic matter called 
  negative vacuum energy, a consequence of quantum 
  mechanics. The presence of this toroidal ring of 
  negative vacuum energy is what's required from 
  the math and physics to be able to use the warp trick.
It doesn't explicitly mention "gravity", but wouldn't this "negative vacuum energy" have some kind of important relationship with the behavior of gravity?

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#12
That's mind bending, never thought of gravity that way (being a force like EM, and subject to a propagation speed).

In my mind, gravity was just some sort of "vacuum" the mass leaves as it moves, and other bodies get "pulled in" because that's the space where the "energy" (mass) levels are smaller, and the system tends to a stable state. But not something like a wave that propagates, just a side effect of the global system, not tied to speed in any way.

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#13

That's mind bending, never thought of gravity that way (being a force like EM, and subject to a propagation speed). In my mind, gravity was just some sort of "vacuum" the mass leaves as it moves, and other bodies get "pulled in" because that's the space where the "energy" (mass) levels are smaller, and the system tends to a stable state. But not something like a wave that propagates, just a side effect of the global…

Obligatory: http://xkcd.com/895/

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#14
post #8

Something very interesting whenever this question is asked - what is the speed of light? It is "the speed at which data propagates through space time". I think that is a fascinating truth to our universe. There is a very good discussion from r/askscience on this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1kjp6z/does_grav...

[deleted]

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#15
> But if the sun vanished right now, it would take 8 minutes for the earth to stop orbiting and shoot off into space.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/grav_rad...

There's a number of competing models which fit existing data.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2010/08/25/what-is-t...

See the closing paragraph referencing LISA ~ 2030 A.D.

The real way to measure the speed of gravity is to detect and study gravitational waves. By comparing the arrival of a gravitational-wave signal with that of an electromagnetic signal from an astrophysical source, one could compare the speed of gravity to that of light to parts in 10^(17).

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#17
People may be interested in experiments to detect these waves. From the Wikipedia page on LIGO:

"LIGO, which stands for the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory, is a large-scale physics experiment aiming to directly detect gravitational waves. [...] At the cost of $365 million (in 2002 USD), it is the largest and most ambitious project ever funded by the NSF.

Observations at LIGO began in 2002 and ended in 2010; no unambiguous detections of gravitational waves have been reported. The original detectors were disassembled and are currently being replaced by improved versions known as "advanced LIGO", scheduled to be operational by 2014.

[...]

Measurable emissions of gravitational waves are expected from binary systems (collisions and coalescences of neutron stars or black holes), supernova of massive stars (which form neutron stars and black holes), accreting neutron stars, rotations of neutron stars with deformed crusts, and the remnants of gravitational radiation created by the birth of the universe."

For more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational-wave_detector

There is a fantastic lecture series by a Yale U. astronomer that touches on this and related topics from a calculus-free perspective:

http://oyc.yale.edu/astronomy/astr-160

Also on youtube and iTunes U.

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#18
It makes me think of hanging sand in Minecraft -- you disrupt 1 column and cause it to be recalculated and fall, and this causes the columns next to it to be recalculated and fall, dominoing on until all of the hanging sand has fallen. This is the propagation in action.

The propagation time is a combination of the 'tick rate' and the 'size of the granules'. In Minecraft, I'm pretty sure the tick rate is around 1/10 of a second, and the granule size is defined as 1 cubic meter.

In our universe, the tick rate probably is 1/c, or .00000000333 seconds (please correct my math), and the granule size is similarly infinitesimal.

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#19

It makes me think of hanging sand in Minecraft -- you disrupt 1 column and cause it to be recalculated and fall, and this causes the columns next to it to be recalculated and fall, dominoing on until all of the hanging sand has fallen. This is the propagation in action. The propagation time is a combination of the 'tick rate' and the 'size of the granules'. In Minecraft, I'm pretty sure the tick rate is around 1/10 o…

Since c is a velocity, 1/c doesn't have units of time; it has units of time/distance.

Special and general relativity (at least, as commonly formulated) also assume that space and time are isotropic and continuous, which means there is no "granule", no "smallest increment" in the field equations. That may or may not be true; we're still trying to figure out if spacetime is quantized or not.

Re: Does Gravity Travel at the Speed of Light? (1998)

#20
post #3

It's a fairly short and clear article, so no need for a Tl;DR. Note that this is NOT yet another "revolutionary" announcement, but just contemplative reasoning from a respected expert in gravitational physics.

Yeah, well. I don't get it. Could somebody summarize it in terms a 9 year old like myself can understand?
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