I will not do a tech interview • Hacker News Board

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#221

Post by dmatlack » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #181

peeters wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me like software engineering is one of the only fields with people arrogant enough to assume that every good and passionate programmer should also be doing programming as a hobby. I loved software engineering so much that I decided to turn it into a career, so that I could do it every day. But now you want me to do it every day and every night? No. My work during the day is fulfilling. My hobbies provide…

It seems to me that software engineering is one of the only fields with people arrogant enough to assume that employers should hire folks without being able to see what they've actually accomplished. A "portfolio" does not have to, and should not , consist of side projects. Don't have any real code that you are allowed to share? Obviously, many employers won't hire engineers without reviewing existing code or having…

What? Not everyone works on front-facing, UI applications. What if I contributed a good amount of code to a large tech company's networking infrastructure. What do you want me to show you? A picture of the servers? A picture of Amazon's homepage or google.com, if those are the companies I'm working for?

Not being able to show "code" or "screenshots" is not the fault of the prospective employee (as you "oh so subtly" implied with your last sentence).

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#222

Post by sghill » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #193

untog wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe somebody can explain this better to me -- but if you freeze up in interviews, are you also going to freeze up in developer meetings? During code reviews? When you're in the room with clients? Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Meetings and code reviews are with co-workers, whom you know and trust. Meetings with clients could be nerve-wracking for other reasons, but the…

>Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Really? I disagree. There even exist situations (in the case of some positions) where you will be talking to a client of the company you're working for, effectively interviewing with the client, representing the company. And interviewing is a subset of "sales", which is important for working on many teams -- including selling management on…

> There even exist situations (in the case of some positions) where you will be talking to a client of the company you're working for, effectively interviewing with the client, representing the company.

What positions would require you to prove the technical capability of your company at this level?

I've been working for a consultancy for a few years now. I can't recall a time when a client asked me to describe a closure or what I thought of !important. If I'm on a development team, the conversation with clients is generally about the time and effort required to implement something, or the options we have for delivering the functionality. If I'm pulled into a sales meeting, it's usually high-level architectural discussions.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#223

Post by wedtm » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #193

untog wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe somebody can explain this better to me -- but if you freeze up in interviews, are you also going to freeze up in developer meetings? During code reviews? When you're in the room with clients? Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Meetings and code reviews are with co-workers, whom you know and trust. Meetings with clients could be nerve-wracking for other reasons, but the…

>Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Really? I disagree. There even exist situations (in the case of some positions) where you will be talking to a client of the company you're working for, effectively interviewing with the client, representing the company. And interviewing is a subset of "sales", which is important for working on many teams -- including selling management on…

Perhaps, but you also have time to prepare for the questions you'll get from the client, who's most likely purchasing something that you've done for the past X months/years. A technical interview requires perfection (or close to it) the first day you see the problem.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#224

Post by nknighthb » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

Cakez0r wrote: post #179

potatolicious wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems false to me. Interview stress isn't deadline stress isn't code review stress. This is like saying "all drivers need to be able to drive well under stress, so let's test them while blaring a foghorn in their ear". Context is important. I don't want to hire someone who is good at interviewing, I want to hire someone who is good at what I need them to do. While it may behoove the individual to train themselve…

all drivers need to be able to drive well under stress But wouldn't you say a driving test is to driving as a technical interview is to a development role?

Since a driving test involves driving, and I've never once encountered a technical interview that involved any reasonable facsimile of an actual technical work environment... No, absolutely not.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#225

Post by chris_mahan » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #153

nagrom wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there are other problems here though; if you are going to be a part of an environment where you may experience adrenaline surges, you need to work through them. Skipping that part of an interview means that you won't be able to evaluate that response. One solution may be to include a high-stress part of the interview, but to weight it in the overall evaluation appropriately. [>>>This is great when you've…

Adult tigers rarely climb trees even when chasing prey and need a significant running start to do so at all. Though they are cats their mass is importantly very different than domestic cats. You fail the interview for not getting the a-ha question right.

Does the adult tiger realize that sooner or later you have to come down, and rather than risking injury, can just wait for you to come down?

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#226

Post by nknighthb » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

nkuttler wrote: post #166

j_baker wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truthfully, I'm not certain I'd trust someone who can go through an interview without freezing up or having any similar problems. Confidence is a valuable thing, but only in moderation.

I find it very bizarre that anybody would say something like this. Are you afraid of people who are more confident than you? Would that deter you even if they demonstrate superior technical skills?

I take it you've never heard the word "overconfident"?

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#227

Post by gregors » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

taway2012 wrote: post #34

pja wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google recently revealed that going back over the data they kept about past hires demonstrated that an individual's GPA was completely independent of the quality of their future contributions to the company. Why should Oracle be any different?

There is a diff between what the parent said and what you said. They aren't opposites, hence they can both can be true. IMHO. What I understood from parent was: good college + good GPA => meets minimum hiring criteria, so make them an offer. What you are saying is: (good college, good GPA) is not correlated with magnitude of performance among PEOPLE ALREADY HIRED INTO GOOGLE .

I'm glad to know that somehow being at a good college makes learning about linked lists somehow more relevant to employers.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#228

Post by skittles » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

chollida1 wrote: post #22

> I politely suggest that a short contract job might be the best option for a company to evaluate a senior developer I like the twist of doing the contract off site on the developers own time. Every time I see someone on hacker news saying, "we've solved the interview problem. We just require every new hire to give up their old job and contract with us for a week to see if they are a good fit", I often wonder about t…

I've always assumed those companies are weeding out older applicants. They are going after fresh graduates who are smart. That's all they want.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#229

Post by jkresner » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:31 PM UTC

I agree feverishly with you post.

I've been a dev for 10 years and worked in Sydney, London, New York & San Francisco. What I noticed is that San Francisco has a very different "technical" interview approach that is very CS focused. I studied a CS degree (7 years ago) and think it's stupid that I have to dig into knowledge that I have not needed professionally over my whole career.

I've built successful startups, coded mamoth apps used by millions of people, but failed interviews at companies like Yammer.

I wrote a post about how I conduct technical interviews for my company airpair.

http://hackerpreneurialism.com/post/43661666180/how-i-conduc...

Pair Programming is KEY.

Also, side plug we've been getting lots of business both around preparing for interviews and helping to interview candidates when you don't have in-house knowledge to vet skills you don't have.

Here are some examples:

http://airpa.ir/1d5sqR6 (Need help reviewing candidates code)

http://airpa.ir/1dteU8H (Need help interviewing an iOS candiate)

http://airpa.ir/173ily2 (Needed help preparing for JavaScript interview)

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#230

Post by untog » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 6:31 PM UTC

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #193

untog wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe somebody can explain this better to me -- but if you freeze up in interviews, are you also going to freeze up in developer meetings? During code reviews? When you're in the room with clients? Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Meetings and code reviews are with co-workers, whom you know and trust. Meetings with clients could be nerve-wracking for other reasons, but the…

>Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Really? I disagree. There even exist situations (in the case of some positions) where you will be talking to a client of the company you're working for, effectively interviewing with the client, representing the company. And interviewing is a subset of "sales", which is important for working on many teams -- including selling management on…

I think this is where you failed, though. If they asked you back, then even though you didn't feel good about the interview process, you must have passed.

Sure. But do I want to work somewhere that has such a broken policy? Why haven't they fixed it? What other areas of the company have a similar lack of attention?

Interviews go both ways. The candidate and the company only get a small glimpse at each other and have to extrapolate from there. What I extrapolated was not positive.