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29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

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Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#61

Post by rdl »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #44
rdl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even lower hanging fruit is the stupid fires in Indonesia (both wildfires and to clear land). We could pay to either employ those farmers in something else, or to upgrade how they manage their land, for cheaper than CO2/pollution savings in US industry.

CO2 from concrete manufacture is a big issue. Considering that all the buildings being built here are concrete construction, I think China is significantly higher output than a few measly brush fires

There is economic benefit to cement production and concrete construction (theoretically), whereas there is essentially no economic benefit from brush fires, and the savings from slash-and-burn vs. regular clearing is tiny.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#62

Post by phaemon »

ars wrote: post #48
phaemon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If both of those were correct, it would cost more to cycle 10 miles every day than it would cost to drive 10 miles every day. It doesn't, therefore your points are wrong.

Except it does actually cost more to cycle. You just don't notice because when you buy food it doesn't have a label saying where you used those calories. It does depend on what you choose to eat though. If you eat beans vs burgers. The cheap food comes close enough to driving to not matter, but most people eat nicer food and then it's more expensive to bicycle.

> Except it does actually cost more to cycle.

No, this is plainly wrong.

Don't take my word for it, work out the cost per mile for yourself. You'll quickly see that you have to choose ridiculously low car costs vs expensive, low calorie foods to get it remotely close. With average car prices vs cheap food...it isn't even a contest.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#63

Post by Volpe »

ars wrote: post #43
Volpe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is, China isn't the one that needs to reduce, it is the US.

Nope. China. The only reason China has reasonably good numbers is that most of their population lives in miserable poverty.

Regardless, it should be measured on per capita, and China are WAY a head. So you are arguing to measure different countries in different ways. This seems inherently unfair.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#64

Post by hkmurakami »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58
Volpe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is like the only thing...the only thing...that has gotten better in China while I've been here! Slightly off topic, but what are the things that have gotten much worse?

Traffic, pollution, Internet censorship and VPN attacks, rent, visa rules, taxes.

I really wish I could have gone to Beijing when people still rode bikes. Really loved how that looked in photographs.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#65

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hkmurakami wrote: post #64
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic, pollution, Internet censorship and VPN attacks, rent, visa rules, taxes.

I really wish I could have gone to Beijing when people still rode bikes. Really loved how that looked in photographs.

I was in Beijing in winter 1999/2000 when the morning sea of bicycles thing was still active. Precious memories that I won't experience again.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#66

Post by [deleted] »

po wrote: post #26
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

This is an article from 2008 about dust storms from the Gobi travelling across the Pacific; this isn't the main pollution problem in China today. The dust coming in from the Gobi was a result of deforestation and poor land management policies, which were pretty much cleaned up for the Olympics and have remained quite fixed. We haven't had a real dust storm in Beijing since early 2008, I think, and definitely not one…

That dust storm earlier this year certainly did turn the sky yellow at my place in Tokyo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544202652/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544418994/ It was one of the strangest weather phenomenons: it came and went within a few hours.

[deleted]

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#67

Post by Uchikoma »

ars wrote: post #14
Uchikoma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low hanging fruit is always getting others doing something. I for myself see the low hanging fruits with the things I can do or influence.

Honestly there isn't much you can do. Most pollution is industrial, and most industrial pollution is not in the US. Recycling just causes more pollution, so that doesn't help. You can turn lights off and install CFL's, but the difference is tiny. Riding a bike vs driving actually causes more pollution (because farms make lots of pollution) [unless you replace exercise you anyway do with bike riding]. Coal burning in…

"Riding a bike vs driving actually causes more pollution (because farms make lots of pollution) [unless you replace exercise you anyway do with bike riding]."

This is a very interesting point, do you have some numbers to back that claim? Food production costs, car production, oil production etc.?

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