Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#21

Post by rlpb » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:34 PM UTC

jamesroseman wrote: post #4

"He faced up to 90 years in prison." I think that, all things considered, this is the best possible outcome (realistically). There was no way he'd walk, because he did break laws. In this instance those laws were broken to get information out to the public, but one can easily imagine when those laws could be broken for more malicious purposes. If you leave this unpunished, they might think this opens up the floodgate…

> In this instance those laws were broken to get information out to the public, but one can easily imagine when those laws could be broken for more malicious purposes. If you leave this unpunished, they might think this opens up the floodgates.

I'm not going to comment about the length of the sentence itself. But sentencing is supposed to take into account the exact details of the offence. "one can easily imagine when those laws could be broken for more malicious purposes" is a reason why somebody breaking laws for more malicious purposes should get a longer sentence. So your argument actually works the other way: it explains why Manning might have been expected to get a lesser sentence.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#22

Post by kevincennis » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:34 PM UTC

monsterix wrote: post #2

Very sad. So the guys who murdered innocents in another country using machine guns sitting on top of a helicopter are yet to be tried. While the guys who stood up for humanity and true spirit of serving forces for good is sentenced 35 years. And I know a lot of people would troll me on this opinion itself.

I totally understand that sentiment, but at the same time, the whole concept of classified information breaks down pretty quickly if you start saying it's okay for people to exercise their own judgement and break the rules.

There are always paths to responsible disclosure. From what I understand, many of them are pretty badly broken, and we certainly need to fix that.

But ultimately, you really don't want to set a precedent of "well, if you leak something and you really believe in your heart that it was morally justified, then we won't send you to jail."

Anyway, I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here, so I shall now let the sea of downvotes wash over me.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#23

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:34 PM UTC

monsterix wrote: post #2

Very sad. So the guys who murdered innocents in another country using machine guns sitting on top of a helicopter are yet to be tried. While the guys who stood up for humanity and true spirit of serving forces for good is sentenced 35 years. And I know a lot of people would troll me on this opinion itself.

So the guys who murdered innocents in another country using machine guns sitting on top of a helicopter are yet to be tried.

You're dead on with that comment. The most galling aspect of this entire story isn't that Manning is going to serve some jail time (although that is absurd in its own right), but rather that all of the real criminals are walking away scott free, with no repurcusions for their behavior at all.

This will probably prove to be the case with the NSA situation as well. The people who ordered, and conducted, mass surveillance of people they had not business spying on, will never be punished. And no one will be held accountable even so far as losing their job, or being docked some pay. Keith Alexander and James Clapper and their cronies keep getting paid and probably get nice, cushy government provided pensions and the whole bit. Meanwhile, Edward Snowden is forced to hide out in another country, completely removed from his friends and family, and - for all we know - may ultimately wind up in jail right alongside Bradley Manning.

Tell me something isn't badly wrong with this picture?

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#24

Post by clarky07 » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

jamesroseman wrote: post #4

"He faced up to 90 years in prison." I think that, all things considered, this is the best possible outcome (realistically). There was no way he'd walk, because he did break laws. In this instance those laws were broken to get information out to the public, but one can easily imagine when those laws could be broken for more malicious purposes. If you leave this unpunished, they might think this opens up the floodgate…

That's silly. Motive is taken into account for everything else. If you kill someone by accident it's different than if you commit premeditated murder. The person planning to maliciously use classified secrets should expect a stiffer response than a whistleblower like manning.

Edit: Intent, not motive is what I meant to say. Thanks. Point remains though. You can argue that he did deserve something for the reasons rayiner mentions, but you can't argue that he deserves something to make a point to people with malicious intent. If you don't think he had malicious intent, he shouldn't get as much penalty. They should still expect to get the bigger penalty.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#25

Post by fatjokes » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

Any hope Obama had of Snowden coming back to the US voluntarily just evaporated.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#26

Post by octo_t » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

Pvt Manning has received more time in prison than the entirety of the Collateral Murder crew combined (0 years).

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#27

Post by joering2 » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:37 PM UTC

His sentencing matrix: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSMgOFYCAAM4aqi.jpg:large

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#28

Post by Torn » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

kevincennis wrote: post #22

monsterix wrote: post #2

Very sad. So the guys who murdered innocents in another country using machine guns sitting on top of a helicopter are yet to be tried. While the guys who stood up for humanity and true spirit of serving forces for good is sentenced 35 years. And I know a lot of people would troll me on this opinion itself.

I totally understand that sentiment, but at the same time, the whole concept of classified information breaks down pretty quickly if you start saying it's okay for people to exercise their own judgement and break the rules. There are always paths to responsible disclosure. From what I understand, many of them are pretty badly broken, and we certainly need to fix that. But ultimately, you really don't want to set a pr…

It's a fair enough opinion, the problem is that there's no public input on whether leaking is justified - those in charge will say it isn't and that's that.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#29

Post by aspensmonster » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #14

This is a disgrace. They send a young man to prison for 35 years for uncovering possible war crimes and a bunch of diplomatic fiddle-faddle. He is not eligible for parole until he has served 1/3 of the time.

Obama could fix this with the stroke of a pen. Surely he will deliver. I'll wait.

Re: Judge sentences Bradley Manning to 35 years

#30

Post by doe88 » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

Nevertheless he still has full respect in my eyes, whatever the gov/justice can say or do, I thank him for exposing the truth. I have no doubt, a time will come when his actions will be seen as positive by most of the people.