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'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#91

Post by ajays »

espeed wrote: post #61
yenoham wrote: post #19

When articles like this are submitted to HN, can we have a discussion on what us as individuals can actually do (if anything)? I'd rather drop 100 comments on general FEELING towards the news, for 1 or 2 comments suggesting 'Let's create a campaign site' or 'There is nothing we can do, lets just sit here in silence' Edit: For what it's worth my ONLY suggestion is that a campaign site similar to that for SOPA, etc. is…

Google was founded on the principle of "Don't be evil", it has the power and influence to effect change, and it helped lead the charge against SOPA. Why is Google so silent now? "He who has the ability to act on an injustice, but who stands idly by, is just as guilty as he who holds the knife." How Google handles this will be its defining moment. This is could be an opportunity for Google to win the world over by sho…

"Dear Google, please save us!"

You might as well have said, "Dear God, please save us!"

Sorry, but you won't be saved by any corporate entity; they're in bed with the surveillance state anyways. It is people like us, yes, you included, who have to take up the baton and run with it.

Here are things you can do:

- Talk to your non-techie friends, and bring them up to speed

- Explain to them why "giving up rights for temporary safety" doesn't work

- Tell them why this sort of surveillance is against the core democratic principles this country was founded on

- Suggest to them that they should vote out any politician who supports such policies. In the end, it is the Congress' job to keep checks and balances; and they've failed miserably. Time for all of them to go.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#92

Post by dhimes »

api wrote: post #10
kleiba wrote: post #2

Folks, take a step back and take a look what is going on here. When you were a child, would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century, you would wake up in a world where your own government spies on each and every single citizen, plus whoever is connected to them in another country, where they send agents to newspapers to oppress the freedom of the press? I mean, isn't this almost surreal? Like…

Well, I can say that if Osama bin Laden "hated our freedom," then... well... 9/11 worked, and he won.

This is the saddest truth.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#93

Post by koide »

ganeumann wrote: post #40
peteretep wrote: post #31

Controversial article that made me think: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-do...

Straw man. Nobody argues he's above the law. They argue because: - The law is to detain suspected terrorists, nobody thinks the UK believed he is a terrorist, so they were abusing the law; - If, as the UK government now says, they just wanted any electronic devices he had so they could see what he was carrying, that would have taken less than an hour to confiscate them and ask for whatever passwords Miranda had, not…

> There's always some jackass journalist who thinks they should take the other side, no matter how contrary to the facts, to get some attention. I am just surprised it's at outfits like The Telegraph and Reuters.

Why would you be surprised? It's a given that NSA and friends have people to write stories for them on "reputable" sources. No need for jackass journalists.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#94

Post by xradionut »

jasonkolb wrote: post #79

This is taking quite a scary turn, but not, I think, in the direction that the governments are intending. Rather than intimidate people into silence they are actively creating a movement of people who are abhorred and appalled by these tactics. Kick that dog enough times and you're going to create an organized movement that can fight back. This is how unrest happens. What I don't think they realize is that the dog th…

"While they may have unlimited financial resources, I would pit unlimited technical resources and creativity against that any day of the week."

They are the ones with unlimited technical resources. You don't have armed drones nor biological nor nuclear weapons. You are an hostage like everyone else. You might as well accept that fact for now and just enjoy life.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#95

Post by drzaiusapelord »

kleiba wrote: post #2

Folks, take a step back and take a look what is going on here. When you were a child, would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century, you would wake up in a world where your own government spies on each and every single citizen, plus whoever is connected to them in another country, where they send agents to newspapers to oppress the freedom of the press? I mean, isn't this almost surreal? Like…

I guess if you ignored the decades of reporting on the NSA and recent items like Echelon, Carnivore, Total Informational Awareness, etc you might be a little surprised. Or the equivalant programs in Germany, France, England, Israel, Australia, Canada, etc that have also surfaced.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#96

Post by TallGuyShort »

jstalin wrote: post #43

I love his coining of the term "state-loyal journalists." Greenwald, Snowden, et al deserve Nobel Peace Prizes...

Obama wins peace prize, Obama administration supports spying, Snowden leaks spying, Obama calls Snowden a traitor, Snowden wins peace prize? Wow.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#97

Post by dalore »

kleiba wrote: post #2

Folks, take a step back and take a look what is going on here. When you were a child, would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century, you would wake up in a world where your own government spies on each and every single citizen, plus whoever is connected to them in another country, where they send agents to newspapers to oppress the freedom of the press? I mean, isn't this almost surreal? Like…

Yes but when you professed such beliefs you were labelled a conspiracy nutter.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't listening.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#98

Post by king_jester »

rainsford wrote: post #23
wil421 wrote: post #15

Lets condemn places like China, Russia, and Syria for they way they limit or monitor electronic communications but when the US and "Friends" do it its for mumble mumble TERRORISTS mumble mumble.... If the laws don't allow us to monitor our citizens lets just change the laws or interpret the words differently.

Except the US and friends aren't really "doing it" in the same sense that China, Russia, etc are. Those countries develop powerful surveillance capabilities and use them to target political dissent, among other anti-democratic things. Nothing that's been reported about the US comes even close to that sort of usage.

While not specific to NSA programs, the US gov't at the city, state, and federal levels have targeted political organizations, including infiltrating such organizations and tracking the movements of members in such groups. For examples see the information about spying on leftist groups for the 2004 Republican National Convention or how the NYPD targeted and helped dismantle occupy wall street last year.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#99

Post by jccc »

chalst wrote: post #83
rainsford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly get the "cheap sci-fi novel" feeling reading a lot of commentary on the Internet. But honestly, taking a step back and looking at what's actually happening puts things in a much different perspective and makes comments about living in a dystopian future seem more than a little silly. Look at the David Miranda situation. The Internet reaction about living in a police state was immediate, but the rhetoric d…

> the man's journalist husband more or less openly threatens the UK government with the release of more classified information in retaliation Greenwald goes to lengths to refute this interpretation in the article and elsewhere.

Citations please:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rm09tf

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/19...

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#100

Post by FELICIA-JOY »

The US government spying on citizens is not new at all. It has happened for as long as our nation has been one.

It may be more insidious now because the technology to aggregate spying on "we the people" is available. Welcome to the truly post-privacy era.

Furthermore, the average person is not outraged by this. Cue the shock and awe for one to ten minutes after the biggest breaking stories about it and after that, for the common (wo)man, its all yawns.

Plus, it is quite a dilemma. How does the government protect against terrorism while trying to protect the citizens' privacy when a citizen, or anyone moving among us citizens, could be a terrorist or sympathizer?

The intent is not bad but what could come of this kind of stealthy access is bad if it falls into the wrong hands or becomes guided by ill-intent.

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