21–30 of 79 posts
I wasn't sure why this particular item was included, but I suppose I too am momentarily distracted when I hear a woman personify an inanimate object as 'she'. I mean, I understand it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but there's just that split second where the world seems to turn inside-out and I have to recollect my thoughts.
I wouldn't call it a Male Privilege, though.
Prissy social correctors are no less annoying than boors.
What is the goal of this checklist, other than causing a series of individual guilt trips for a gender imbalance that results from societal factors and/or legitimate gender predispositions for/against our field? What are we supposed to do ? Do these people think we don't wish there were more women in the field? Also, I'm sure the ensuing discussion is going to resemble at least three other HN discussions.
I don't agree with every item on the list, but the point of the exercise is plain.
What is the goal of this checklist, other than causing a series of individual guilt trips for a gender imbalance that results from societal factors and/or legitimate gender predispositions for/against our field? What are we supposed to do ? Do these people think we don't wish there were more women in the field? Also, I'm sure the ensuing discussion is going to resemble at least three other HN discussions.
2) I would surmise that the point of lists like these are to raise awareness of injustices or slights that are done, particularly ones that others may not be aware of, because they are not subjected to them.
3) You're a member of the community, can you really not think of anything you could do to make things different? Why not do something that bucks the geek/nerd stereotype? Why not help someone else do it? Why not encourage/help someone who's not a stereotypical nerd into the field? Why not just object to stereotyping of programmers?
These aren't problems that are going to change immediately. Being reminded that there are still problems isn't a bad thing imo. Just as being reminded that people do care about the issue, and would like to make things different (as you have done).
So the problem has been recognized. There is a will to do something about it. Let's do something. There are organizations like RailsBridge that are forming ( http://railsbridge.org/ ). The ACM-W exists ( http://women.acm.org/ ).
If you want things to be different, pick something to do and do it.
Prissy social correctors are no less annoying than boors.
What is the goal of this checklist, other than causing a series of individual guilt trips for a gender imbalance that results from societal factors and/or legitimate gender predispositions for/against our field? What are we supposed to do ? Do these people think we don't wish there were more women in the field? Also, I'm sure the ensuing discussion is going to resemble at least three other HN discussions.
1) i took a comment ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=624808 ) by the poster, j_baker, and ran it through http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.html which came up on this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=608057 and the result came up most likely male (just a point of note). 2) I would surmise that the point of lists like these are to raise awareness of injustices or slights that are done, particula…
What is the goal of this checklist, other than causing a series of individual guilt trips for a gender imbalance that results from societal factors and/or legitimate gender predispositions for/against our field? What are we supposed to do ? Do these people think we don't wish there were more women in the field? Also, I'm sure the ensuing discussion is going to resemble at least three other HN discussions.
1) i took a comment ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=624808 ) by the poster, j_baker, and ran it through http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.html which came up on this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=608057 and the result came up most likely male (just a point of note). 2) I would surmise that the point of lists like these are to raise awareness of injustices or slights that are done, particula…
Dietetics/Nutrition and Nursing are dramatic cases with the opposite gender distribution (My wife happens to be in Dietetics). The treatment of guys in dietetics is just as strange as the treatment of girls in programming.
None of this absolves the programming community. Just because it's not a unique problem, doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be addressed.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) i took a comment ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=624808 ) by the poster, j_baker, and ran it through http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.html which came up on this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=608057 and the result came up most likely male (just a point of note). 2) I would surmise that the point of lists like these are to raise awareness of injustices or slights that are done, particula…
Re: 3, I don't think that the problems are at my age. They're at college freshman/sophomore and younger, when women decide to enter the field. By the time we exit college, there are hardly any women left to treat more equally.
However, i just can't fathom how it could be the case that there's nothing we can do about it, regardless of what our ages may be. Why aren't we addressing the pipeline into the industry? That can take the form of direct involvement with the lives of students (which is also something that should be undertaken carefully. My wife took programming classes in high school, and even her instructor for the class was creepy), or indirectly, again through trying to defeat the stereotypes about who is in our industry.
And i think we need to broaden our perspective on where the feeder into the pipeline is. Why aren't we trying to get analytical individuals from other fields who already do train their students to think analytically?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re: 3, I don't think that the problems are at my age. They're at college freshman/sophomore and younger, when women decide to enter the field. By the time we exit college, there are hardly any women left to treat more equally.
I agree with your antecedent. It is true that i think a lot of the prejudice and abhorrent behavior takes place younger. There are a lot of people who don't make it through the weeders that should. However, i just can't fathom how it could be the case that there's nothing we can do about it, regardless of what our ages may be. Why aren't we addressing the pipeline into the industry? That can take the form of direct i…
Probably because trainability of those folks would cause more "anyone can do it" sentiment, devaluing our skills.
As to the pipeline, now you're calling for outright altruistic activism, not a change in day-to-day behavior at work. Also, if I set out to "encourage women in computer science", it would probably be perceived as "creepy".
Prissy social correctors are no less annoying than boors.
"Prissy" social correctors are at least smart enough to critically analyze the world around them. Boors are completely clueless. I'd take the former over the latter any day of the week.
That's not true in my observation. Most adopt a prefab ideology that they try to impose on the world around them. They like to label this "critical analysis" (or that old stalwart, "thinking for yourself"), but it isn't: if it were, their ideas and positions and tone wouldn't be so predictable. Actually, trying to impose a rigid ideology on others is a large part of what makes them prissy. The OP seems to me a nice example.