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'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#71

Post by boi_v2 »

nicholassmith wrote: post #58

The British government looks like a farcical bully in this. A playground bruiser that intimidates his way down the hall before promptly slipping over. Destroying the hard drives was an exercise in dominance, 'do as we say or face the consequences' which had no impact (aside from inconvenience and the cost of a couple of Macbook Pros) to The Guardian but has made the UK .gov look foolish. Pulling Miranda, abusing the…

Honestly I don't think the "write to your MP" action would have any result, for me this is just another tool to make people think that Democracy is being exercised, anyway, I am not saying that you shouldn't do it, please do it, but don't stop your actions there because it is just not enough.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#72

Post by koide »

rainsford wrote: post #41
kleiba wrote: post #2

Folks, take a step back and take a look what is going on here. When you were a child, would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century, you would wake up in a world where your own government spies on each and every single citizen, plus whoever is connected to them in another country, where they send agents to newspapers to oppress the freedom of the press? I mean, isn't this almost surreal? Like…

I certainly get the "cheap sci-fi novel" feeling reading a lot of commentary on the Internet. But honestly, taking a step back and looking at what's actually happening puts things in a much different perspective and makes comments about living in a dystopian future seem more than a little silly. Look at the David Miranda situation. The Internet reaction about living in a police state was immediate, but the rhetoric d…

So a government can apply terrorism law to a person having information that's damaging to its interests?

That certainly looks like police state to me. And I'm not even mentioning the 9 hours detention, not needed at all to recover the damaging information.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#73

Post by antman »

kleiba wrote: post #2

Folks, take a step back and take a look what is going on here. When you were a child, would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century, you would wake up in a world where your own government spies on each and every single citizen, plus whoever is connected to them in another country, where they send agents to newspapers to oppress the freedom of the press? I mean, isn't this almost surreal? Like…

-would any of you have believed that one day in the early 21st century

no I always thought it would be at one day in the late 20th century. Probably because my parents had found and bought me in comics "1984" and the "Animal farm" when I was a kid

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#74

Post by RodericDay »

MartinMcGirk wrote: post #60
swalsh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regards to your first paragraph, its a question I keep wondering. What was different about these leaks then all the previous? Why NOW are people caring?

I would argue that, in general, people aren't caring. We are caring; the small band of software and technology enthusiasts who develop software and online businesses. We care. But in the grand scheme of things, people don't care so much about this. In the grand scheme of things we are a special interest group, like Anti-Fracking protesters or Animal Rights activists. Until I hear my mother or my girlfriend or my old…

You think Animal Rights Activists and Anti-Fracking Protesters don't care about their privacy? You think they aren't your natural allies on this? They may not understand the mechanisms by which it is all happening, but they are certainly down with the sentiment.

The way I see it, geeks have been complicit with the system for a long time, always under the guise of being "moderates". It's only now that massive corruption is starting to cramp on our style, and the reaction should be much more humble than "we're alone in understanding how bad things are".

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#75

Post by tlear »

michaelt wrote: post #67
rainsford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly get the "cheap sci-fi novel" feeling reading a lot of commentary on the Internet. But honestly, taking a step back and looking at what's actually happening puts things in a much different perspective and makes comments about living in a dystopian future seem more than a little silly. Look at the David Miranda situation. The Internet reaction about living in a police state was immediate, but the rhetoric d…

Let's say you were the british security services, you didn't like Greenwald, and you wanted to show him who was boss. And his partner was travelling through an airport. What would you do differently?

In a novel he would enter the country get kidnapped, drugged, tortured and would disappear permanently.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#76

Post by uptown »

espeed wrote: post #61
yenoham wrote: post #19

When articles like this are submitted to HN, can we have a discussion on what us as individuals can actually do (if anything)? I'd rather drop 100 comments on general FEELING towards the news, for 1 or 2 comments suggesting 'Let's create a campaign site' or 'There is nothing we can do, lets just sit here in silence' Edit: For what it's worth my ONLY suggestion is that a campaign site similar to that for SOPA, etc. is…

Google was founded on the principle of "Don't be evil", it has the power and influence to effect change, and it helped lead the charge against SOPA. Why is Google so silent now? "He who has the ability to act on an injustice, but who stands idly by, is just as guilty as he who holds the knife." How Google handles this will be its defining moment. This is could be an opportunity for Google to win the world over by sho…

'Google was founded on the principle of "Don't be evil"'

I wish people would stop quoting this. It means nothing, and is not binding in any way. It sounded good, and it was a great marketing slogan - but it means absolutely nothing in reality.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#77

Post by anon1385 »

ganeumann wrote: post #40
peteretep wrote: post #31

Controversial article that made me think: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-do...

Straw man. Nobody argues he's above the law. They argue because: - The law is to detain suspected terrorists, nobody thinks the UK believed he is a terrorist, so they were abusing the law; - If, as the UK government now says, they just wanted any electronic devices he had so they could see what he was carrying, that would have taken less than an hour to confiscate them and ask for whatever passwords Miranda had, not…

>I am just surprised it's at outfits like The Telegraph

I'm not sure why. David Cameron could literally murder a baby on live TV and Dan Hodges would describe it as a 'political headache for Miliband'. Nobody takes him seriously; his columns are just fodder for Telegraph readers looking to confirm what they already believe.

Not to mention all the wacko conspiracy theories about climate change that they print.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#78

Post by espeed »

frank_boyd wrote: post #52

There are people who've been planning these things all along, just to give you a hint: “The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal informat…

Brzezinski is Obama's advisor.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#79

Post by jasonkolb »

This is taking quite a scary turn, but not, I think, in the direction that the governments are intending. Rather than intimidate people into silence they are actively creating a movement of people who are abhorred and appalled by these tactics. Kick that dog enough times and you're going to create an organized movement that can fight back. This is how unrest happens.

What I don't think they realize is that the dog they're kicking is also the most technically capable one on the planet. They're not poking Al Qaeda with a stick, they're poking every programmer and hacker who cares about privacy with a stick. While they may have unlimited financial resources, I would pit unlimited technical resources and creativity against that any day of the week. If they manage to create an organized group of highly technical opposition I think they're going to be very surprised by how capable it is.

Re: 'Sending a message': what the US and UK are attempting to do

#80

Post by antman »

twoodfin wrote: post #65
Mordor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying on people is terrorism and should stop ASAP.

So you'd describe what the folks at Bletchley Park did 70 years ago as terrorism?

They were not spying on people as far as I know.
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