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India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

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Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#181

Post by chr1 »

coldtea wrote: post #167
tptacek wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common sense, if the "traditional value" is that women should be in the house cooking lest they subject themselves to groping and leering. Common sense.

Only billions of other people have a different a kind of "common sense" where "women in the kitchen" is considered perfectly natural for them. What makes yours better? That it's you (your culture that is) that has it? Which brings us to a bigger question: should different cultures with different values on such issues exist in parallel? E.g I for one take offense ("common sense" to me) with any culture that is so back…

"women in the kitchen" was considered perfectly natural in Europe/america culture some time ago, but when women could choose, they mostly chose not to be in kitchen. That's a quite strong argument that women in other cultures will do the same, if they can.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#183

Post by Sven7 »

eshvk wrote: post #162
Sven7 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Objectifying women is okay as long as they get paid. And I guess in this fantasyland rape never happens too.

Nice. Way to miss the fucking point. Let me break it down for you. The article was an article on sexual harassment and rape in a specific country. Not this country. A different country. Totally different cultural values, objectives. You rambled on about two completely different issues: 1. The "developed world" and objectification of women here. 2. Pornography and the porn industry. The developed world, its issues are…

A whole lot of comments take the tone, this kind of stuff only happens "over there". I found it relevant to point out this isn't exactly true. Please go look at the Steubenville case and ask yourself is there really a difference.

Anyway for anyone interested in a much more intelligent discussion than what we will ever have here check out - http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/BeastNe

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#184

Post by thisisnotclear »

Its 1/6 of the world population we are talking about. There is no known way to integrate Indian people and modern culture brewing there. Everyone has ideas and realizations but there is no solution to this problem. This is going to be a huge problem in some years and its going to effect every single one of us.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#185

Post by solistice »

lovemenot wrote: post #179
hankcharles wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly can be dangerous, as can any country, and I consider myself lucky to not have had any problems, but I can't think of another country I have been in that felt safer to me. And more time there only verified that feeling. There is a certainly a strong chance I would feel otherwise if I was a woman.

Have you visited Japan? It has great civility and safety, applied to people of either gender and even to foreigners. At least to white ones like me. Japanese say the old order is breaking down in the cities, so I can only imagine how it once was. Yet it remains the most civil place I have seen.

But aren't there seperate gender subway wagons precisely because there were widespread problems with sexual harassment?

I'd find it intresting to get the view of someone who grew up in asia and is ethnically asian, because their view will proably be markedly different from ours. I mean I'm half chinese, but I have the benefit of being male and being a hunxuee'r which most likely changes how chinese people treat me.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#186

Post by lovemenot »

solistice wrote: post #185
lovemenot wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you visited Japan? It has great civility and safety, applied to people of either gender and even to foreigners. At least to white ones like me. Japanese say the old order is breaking down in the cities, so I can only imagine how it once was. Yet it remains the most civil place I have seen.

But aren't there seperate gender subway wagons precisely because there were widespread problems with sexual harassment? I'd find it intresting to get the view of someone who grew up in asia and is ethnically asian, because their view will proably be markedly different from ours. I mean I'm half chinese, but I have the benefit of being male and being a hunxuee'r which most likely changes how chinese people treat me.

Yes, there are such wagons for the reasons you state - though limited to rush hour (about 90 minutes per day) and one per train of fourteen wagons or so and, in Tokyo, only used on some lines. It does seem better here, but I am both male and European so not fully equipped to adjudge.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#187

Post by nasmorn »

rdtsc wrote: post #142
thelukester wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've traveled all over the world, from South America, India, to China. In all those places, the locals stare and take photos. They stare at me, also a redhead; they stare at my girlfriend, who is from LA and dresses like it. Unlike this sheltered author, when the kids take photos of us, the white ghosts, faragn, or gringos, we don't assume they're going to use it for porn. We're often the only white couple in the tow…

I grew up in a poor part of Easter Europe. Alcoholism, poverty, despair was around. It wasn't Africa, and there are lots, lots worse places in the world. We might not have always had enough food to eat, but we were lucky to have what we had. It is important to recognize when you are not safe and to know how to diffuse the situation and escape. In some of those places it could go from staring to stabbing quickly. Let'…

When I travelled Indua with my wife she would not be touched but it constantly happend to all single women we met. I believe the men just saw her as my property thus expecting me to retaliate. What they did not understand was how a women could not be tied to a man.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#188

Post by Nursie »

Sven7 wrote: post #156
kenster07 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgeting about the india comparison for a sec, there are degrees of 'voluntary.' There are no girls out there who think that they want to be in porn when they grow up.

Porn is definitely a sensitive subject around here. I have been down voted into oblivion before for bringing it up. I guess the accepted opinion around here is as long as women get paid to be objectified its all cool. And ofcourse there are no effects of such objectification on any of the minds that make up this enlightened society. EDIT: Pretty sure everyone arguing for there being a big difference thinks things lik…

Sorry, widespread assault and the experience described in the article are in no way the same as the everyday experiences of women in the western world. If you think they are you're delusional.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#189

Post by rayiner »

Tichy wrote: post #48
rayiner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either ignorance, or a healthy dose of youthful, idealistic liberalism.

What does liberalism mean in that context - the belief that everybody is only responsible for themselves? (Again serious question, I don't know how to interpret this).

"Liberal" as in this meme: http://www.quickmeme.com/College-Liberal

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#190

Post by rayiner »

eshvk wrote: post #80
rayiner wrote: post #12

I feel bad for what happened to this poor woman, but it just goes to show you the disconnect between academic romanticization ("South Asian Studies" major at U. Chicago) and the cold hard light of reality. And that reality is that people flee these countries for a reason. People don't just decide to uproot their families and leave everything they know 10,000 miles in the rear view mirror for nothing. What bugs me are…

> What bugs me are people, largely motivated by financial interests, in my opinion, who downplay the massive cultural and social advantages we still enjoy in the west over places like India. We may be dealing with demographic challenges and sometimes sclerotic economics, but I'd take France in decline over any BRIC country on a supposed upswing any day of the week... But the almighty dollar is the most important thin…

There is that also, but the financial aspect is separate. India is a major growth zone right now, and lots of American companies are seeking to expand into the Indian marketplace. There is thus a strong desire to play up the culture there and play down the culture here, and paper over things like widespread sexual assault. After all, if you're relocating an entire division to India, the narrative has to be about how you'll not just save money,b but how much better India is than the U.S. in other respects.
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