Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

ireport.cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 201 posts

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#141

Post by SkyAtWork »

kenster07 wrote: post #95
Nursie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at pictures and movies of women voluntarily engaged in sex acts is in no way equivalent to groping them in the street, attempting to rape them or depersonalising them and treating them as objects. It's just not.

Forgeting about the india comparison for a sec, there are degrees of 'voluntary.' There are no girls out there who think that they want to be in porn when they grow up.

One of those degrees is definitely "sure, that sounds like a turnon." There is certainly legitimate exploitation, but it's not like Paris Hilton did it to make rent.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#142

Post by rdtsc »

thelukester wrote: post #137
rdtsc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or a woman it must be extra difficult to accept - and that's just the stares. The lack of respect for her space may be part of the collectivism that arises with incredible density I think it is not even close. She was groped and touched. That is sexual assault. It is not rape, but there are cases of Peace Corps volunteers getting raped. Chucking that up to culture is, perhaps trying a little too hard to defend it.…

I've traveled all over the world, from South America, India, to China. In all those places, the locals stare and take photos. They stare at me, also a redhead; they stare at my girlfriend, who is from LA and dresses like it. Unlike this sheltered author, when the kids take photos of us, the white ghosts, faragn, or gringos, we don't assume they're going to use it for porn. We're often the only white couple in the tow…

I grew up in a poor part of Easter Europe. Alcoholism, poverty, despair was around. It wasn't Africa, and there are lots, lots worse places in the world. We might not have always had enough food to eat, but we were lucky to have what we had.

It is important to recognize when you are not safe and to know how to diffuse the situation and escape. In some of those places it could go from staring to stabbing quickly. Let's just say I had to act "crazy" a couple of times in order to be deemed not worth to bother with (this is a good strategy btw if you are by yourself in a bind)

I can't judge of course for you, I wasn't there. But you perhaps underestimate the danger because you were with her. You are also not a woman. It is different for a single woman.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#143

Post by rm999 »

dfc wrote: post #133
rm999 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you are entirely correct, I mixed up those concepts when I was writing my comment. I meant to highlight the cultural patriarchy and distance myself from the misogyny ("I won't defend this"). I do think much of the misogyny in India stems from their patriarchal values, but misogyny is a social issue rather than a cultural concept. I doubt many Indian women are cool with misogyny...

Social issue versus cultural concept This is a new distinction (and somewhat confusing) for me. What is the difference between a social issue and a cultural concept?

Examples: While Indian culture is patriarchal, its society can be quite misogynistic. While American culture deeply frowns upon racism, racism is a very real and ubiquitous social issue. In the first example the societal behaviors arise from the culture, in the second I show that they can be totally contradictory.

Society is about the way people act among each other, culture is what is passed on and shared among a group of people.

I really hate to cite wikianswers because it's one of my least favorite sites, but this description is exactly what I am getting at: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_soc...

>"Society" is more about, "How do all these people interact?" "Culture" is more about, "What do they believe, and what do they value?"

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#144

Post by sricola »

This post just makes me mad. While I am sorry that she had a bitter sweet experience, I also find her extremely unaware and unaccepting of a foreign culture.

It is only human to stare at some thing you don't see that often. May not be pleasant but to assume that her photo was being taken to be used in a pornographic sense is just, utter rubbish.

FYI: I have been stared at in the Midwest, in small town america and at times in the great epicenter of knowledge - that northeastern city called Boston. Look out for me in that next porno. Oh my.

Her imagination runs wild thereafter. I am sorry, I lived in India for 18 years and practically grew up there. I have never ever seen anyone disrespect or "jerk off" at a white person in public. Yes, they hassle you to make a quick buck or two but saying everyone chased her around the place is a wild goose chase around reality.

Sure, the media has done an amazing job of portraying India to be this sexually out of control state, and I agree it has its issues. It is only as bad as any other country in the world, really. Even the so called developed ones.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#145

Post by coldtea »

rayiner wrote: post #12

I feel bad for what happened to this poor woman, but it just goes to show you the disconnect between academic romanticization ("South Asian Studies" major at U. Chicago) and the cold hard light of reality. And that reality is that people flee these countries for a reason. People don't just decide to uproot their families and leave everything they know 10,000 miles in the rear view mirror for nothing. What bugs me are…

>What bugs me are people, largely motivated by financial interests, in my opinion, who downplay the massive cultural and social advantages we still enjoy in the west over places like India.

Most immigrants I know could not care less for those -- they come in the West for the money.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#146

Post by coldtea »

tptacek wrote: post #77
rm999 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people flee these countries for a reason ... massive cultural and social advantages Woah, there's some serious ethnocentrism in your comment. I know 100s of people who have moved to the USA from India, including my parents, a lot of their friends, and a large number of friends and colleagues. These people tend to be very progressive for India and still very few think Western culture is objectively better than Indian…

Am I expected to be O.K. with misogyny in the service of "traditional values", or are traditional values beside the point here? A lot of "traditional" values turn out to be wrong.

>A lot of "traditional" values turn out to be wrong.

As judged by whom?

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#147

Post by [deleted] »

devindotcom wrote: post #13

Something I noticed while in India myself, which may help explain (not excuse) some of the behavior (please note I am not discounting the author's perspective at all): I'm a little over 6 feet, blond hair and green eyes, and when I and my family were visiting India (Mumbai and a few other areas around Maharashtra), we got stared at really, really hard. Like everyone around us literally stopping on the street and doin…

[deleted]

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#148

Post by alphakappa »

This is truly sad.

India is an amazing country, with some amazingly warm people. Unfortunately everything in the story is also very plausible, so as an Indian who is deeply ashamed that visitors to his country can face such an experience - my apologies.

It is Indian tradition to say that "The guest is akin to God". Hopefully every visitor to the country gets treated with the respect that people give their deities one day.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#149

Post by j45 »

lmartel wrote: post #104
rm999 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people flee these countries for a reason ... massive cultural and social advantages Woah, there's some serious ethnocentrism in your comment. I know 100s of people who have moved to the USA from India, including my parents, a lot of their friends, and a large number of friends and colleagues. These people tend to be very progressive for India and still very few think Western culture is objectively better than Indian…

I feel like this is a cop-out. Indian culture is objectively worse than American culture, and this article is pretty solid evidence of this. "Traditional values" are no excuse for misogyny and barbarism. Tradition is close to the literal opposite of social progress and I don't understand why it is glorified. I'm pretty proud that I have no "solid foundation of traditional values," and that I've incidentally raped a g…

All traditions have their spectrum, good and bad. India's a really old civilization and studying a lot of old civilizations, brings to light some unfortunate similarities. I make absolutely no concessions or explanations for barbaric behaviour anywhere, at anytime, but instead of taking a minute to turn a stranger into a person that you can relate to, you too, may be dehumanizing a group that requires effort to learn about.

"All traditions were new once", as we heard in Fiddler on the Roof.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#150

Post by j45 »

tptacek wrote: post #77
rm999 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people flee these countries for a reason ... massive cultural and social advantages Woah, there's some serious ethnocentrism in your comment. I know 100s of people who have moved to the USA from India, including my parents, a lot of their friends, and a large number of friends and colleagues. These people tend to be very progressive for India and still very few think Western culture is objectively better than Indian…

Am I expected to be O.K. with misogyny in the service of "traditional values", or are traditional values beside the point here? A lot of "traditional" values turn out to be wrong.

Is there not plenty of misogyny in non "traditional values"? What does media sell, show 24/7? Valuing? or objectification?
Post reply on HN