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Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

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Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#111

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

nknighthb wrote: post #100
shubb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a CV through the other day from a stranger. The guy had some great experience but the CV was weird. It was 10 pages long for 4 jobs. He listed every course he'd ever been sent on, including health and safety and diversity training ones, and just mixed his degree in somewhere with them. He listed each version of word he'd used (seemly every version released) with equal prominence as Java and SQL. Each time he'd…

You can't be liable for a disability you don't know about, and I wouldn't assume he has one. At some point, probably around the time he was graduating from high school or college, somebody helped him put together his first resumé, and since it was naturally thin, they probably encouraged him to put in everything that might catch an employer's eye. He's probably never read anyone else's resumé. I've seen this several…

> You can't be liable for a disability you don't know about, and I wouldn't assume he has one.

When it comes to employment matters, you can be sued by just about anyone for just about anything.

Opposing counsel can and will spin every fact that seems meaningless or innocuous. For example, the poster here indicates that he responded to the applicant through a personal email. This is not normal behavior, so you can bet a plaintiff's attorney would focus in on that and try to use it to suggest that the poster didn't response through his work email because he knew something wrong was being done.

Talk to any defense-side employment attorney and they'll all tell you the same thing: flimsy, baseless lawsuits are filed against employers every single day. But responding to a flimsy, baseless lawsuit costs money, and many of these lawsuits are settled because it's more cost-effective and expedient to pay to make the case go away.

Bottom line: taking action based on an unrealistic "you can't be liable..." attitude is extremely dangerous.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#112

Post by mathattack »

FDpod wrote: post #55
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After an experience like this, somebody like him would probably swear never to put himself in that position again.

Yes. Exactly (I'm the author). I never want to work in a cubicle again. Which is what the whole Full Disclosure thing is, trying to create my own business as to never deal with this or these types of people again.

OP - If you can sell, you can sell yourself and your firm. Short term you'll have problems, but medium term you'll be ok and long term you'll do fine. Hang in there!

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#113

Post by frenchman_in_ny »

cjensen wrote: post #78
AliEzer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the US you don't have to give explanations? Damn that sucks for the ex-employee. In France you have to write a report in order to fire someone unless they're in their trial period.

Which is why people HATE to hire in France: it's so hard to undo a bad hiring decision that no one will take a chance on a candidate who only "might" work out. The right solution, in my opinion, is allow fire-at-will like we do in California, and have thorough unemployment benefits so that it's not worth making a fuss over.

Well, that and the fact that an employer in France pays something of the order of 42% of the employees salary [1] to the government for taxes.

The Zappos model [2] of $2,000 bonus for quitting one week in is great, I wish more places would use it.

[1] http://hrmagazine.be/fr/newsitem/la-france-au-top-des-cotisa...

[2] http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-09-16/why-zappos-of...

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#114

Post by moocowduckquack »

robomartin wrote: post #98
jtheory wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more details of the story? I've been assuming this rule exists mostly to avoid the danger that you might accidentally phrase the reason for termination such that it could be treated as discriminatory... but this really sounds like the problem is deeper than that.

Facts matter not when the Labor Department gets involved. I walked in with a legally-binding contract done by my attorney and singed by the guy I fired. He was required to sell a certain dollar amount in 90 days. He sold exactly zero. Zero. The Labor Department mediator made me pay him several thousand dollars in ADVANCE COMMISSION I withheld at the time of firing. In reality, per the agreement, he owed ME several th…

In reality, per the agreement, he owed ME several thousand dollars

How does an unsuccessful salesman owe you several thousand dollars? And you are saying you withheld money at the time of firing.

Sales is precarious, but sales without a base is nasty.

I also notice in your language terms like "he, effectively, never earned". Basically, it sounds like this guy worked for you, didn't do so successfully and then you were forced by a court to pay him for his time, rather than you getting into trouble for letting him go.

I was going to treat you to a tune on the worlds tiniest violin, but I told the mice about your plight and now they are refusing to play it for you.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#115

Post by WalterBright »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #2

If he had competing offers, he was in a good negotiating position. I can understand believing in a great company and drinking the kool-aid, but if you have competing offers and a company explicitly states, "Salary and equity are non-negotiable" - that's a huge red flag. You should be allowed to negotiate as a savvy prospective employee. With very few exceptions, you don't want to put yourself in an environment where…

> You should be allowed to negotiate as a savvy prospective employee.

You can always negotiate. You can also dictate your terms. Of course, the other party can refuse your terms, just as you can refuse their terms.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#116

Post by practicalpants »

rfnslyr wrote: post #39
peter_l_downs wrote: post #19

> I was told that neither salary nor equity were negotiable, but I was sold on the promise of the company. Yo, fuck that. Everything is negotiable to one degree or another. That sounds like someone trying to take advantage of you.

I've never understood that. Just taking a job because OH MY GOD JOB. I've been in on going salary negotiations for over two months, all while they paid me the highest contrator salary just to have me stay on. Straight up said "Pay me X or I walk, thanks". 5 second meeting. FUCK company/corporate loyalty. I'm here to get paid so I can fund an adventurous life, not to make you richer. I'm here to make myself richer and…

Hats off to you man. I made a demand similar to yours the other week, though done in friendly words while being nervous about it, and my boss got visibly upset with me (guilt tripping almost), and I got the "too much red tape to just raise your salary like that. I'll talk to HR, maybe a percentage of what you want..." I know the team is pretty dependent on me right now so maybe my next move is to give the ultimatum (and maybe my first mistake was not doing just that...).

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#117

Post by sown »

ececconi wrote: post #29

> Human Resources is not your advocate. Human Resources is a risk-assessment department. Powerful statement.

The same applies to EEO offices. They are there to keep the school/company from getting sued by people who might be discriminated against.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#118

Post by Spooky23 »

md224 wrote: post #40
cjensen wrote: post #26

His boss fired him and told him why? Never do that. When firing someone in an at-will state, just do it and explain nothing. Explanations can easily lead to lawsuits. It's just not worth the risk.

Unrelated to the validity of this advice: it's kind of sad that our society has evolved legal structures that make it prohibitively risky to tell another human being why you're taking an action against them. Hmm... what if you could have an employee sign a release as a precondition of being told why they were fired?

Well, we have laws in place to protect people against discrimination. Unfortunately, when people's backs are to the wall and they lose their jobs, some like to make up all sorts of things to make a few bucks.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#119

Post by vinceguidry »

mratzloff wrote: post #106
vinceguidry wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. The 3 jobs I've gone through were all very different. One was a very small software development company, they decided after three weeks that they wanted someone with a lot more experience. I went from there to a huge corporation, where I was unhappy so I found another job. This one I'm at now is a largish "small business", like 300 employees. I'd be confident in my ability to find another should these guys sudde…

Where are you in your career? Just based on what you've written, it sounds like you're early on in your career and don't have a good idea what the right questions to ask during an interview are. Interviews are as much about you vetting the company as the company vetting you.

Yes, I'm still learning. But it's hard to really know what a company's like from any amount of questioning of your interviewer. I feel like my jobs have given me a good picture of what the industry is like at the various levels.

Right now I'm just trying to get a decent salary. This contract-to-hire nonsense has to go. I'm sick of $20 an hour. If I jump again, they're going to have to offer $70K+ right from the start. No more recruiters, my last two jobs went through recruiters, I need to be my own advocate.

I would love to be able to stick around, but in many cases that's just not smart. I just so happened to have strung three such situations together.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#120

Post by Pinatubo »

vinceguidry wrote: post #23
Apocryphon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My big question is how exactly the way he looked triggered his dismissal.

I'd have marched into the CEO's office and demanded an explanation. Looked him straight in the eye and make him justify his decision.

Don't forget that your potential new employer will probably be contacting your old employer for a reference ...
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