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Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

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Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#91

Post by coldtea »

redblacktree wrote: post #86
rfnslyr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood that. Just taking a job because OH MY GOD JOB. I've been in on going salary negotiations for over two months, all while they paid me the highest contrator salary just to have me stay on. Straight up said "Pay me X or I walk, thanks". 5 second meeting. FUCK company/corporate loyalty. I'm here to get paid so I can fund an adventurous life, not to make you richer. I'm here to make myself richer and…

I'd say in a healthy employee/employer relationship, you're both making each other richer.

Nope -- you always make the boss richer.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#92

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

shubb wrote: post #56
md224 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated to the validity of this advice: it's kind of sad that our society has evolved legal structures that make it prohibitively risky to tell another human being why you're taking an action against them. Hmm... what if you could have an employee sign a release as a precondition of being told why they were fired?

I got a CV through the other day from a stranger. The guy had some great experience but the CV was weird. It was 10 pages long for 4 jobs. He listed every course he'd ever been sent on, including health and safety and diversity training ones, and just mixed his degree in somewhere with them. He listed each version of word he'd used (seemly every version released) with equal prominence as Java and SQL. Each time he'd…

I'm curious about your comment "but I'm sure we could get sued if the strangeness was due to a disability." If the possibility that the candidate's "strangeness" was due to some sort of disability crossed your mind, how did you justify putting your employer at risk of a lawsuit by communicating with the candidate, particularly when your superior had directed you to ignore his submission?

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#93

Post by jacques_chester »

So:

1. What do we know about the Boss? Nothing. Does he have a family? We don't know.

2. Is the Boss meant to quit simultaneously? Why? It's not clear that this would've stopped OP being fired.

If he's such a good boss, quitting makes the situation worse for everyone left behind.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#94

Post by redblacktree »

coldtea wrote: post #91
redblacktree wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say in a healthy employee/employer relationship, you're both making each other richer.

Nope -- you always make the boss richer.

Well, in the strictest sense, I'm getting richer by being employed. Of course, good money handling and living below my means are required for me to make progress.

I think you mean to say that "my boss" is capturing more value from my work than I am, which is probably true, but that doesn't mean that we're not both benefiting. I look at it as a simple transaction; I give my time, he gives me money. I don't plan to keep this arrangement forever, but it's certainly making me richer right now.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#95

Post by vinceguidry »

mratzloff wrote: post #53
vinceguidry wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's to where if I get a whiff of dishonesty, I start submitting resumes. This is my third job since April and I've already started looking for the fourth. I used to think job-hopping would raise a red flag and keep me from getting hired, but it hasn't yet. I think if anything it signals value that you can find work at will.

It hasn't yet that you are aware of . I would immediately pass on your resume without a second glance. Four jobs in less than six months very strongly signals a number of negative things to prospective employers. Perhaps the only companies willing to hire you now are those with high developer turnover who just need a warm body to fill the last vacated seat? And perhaps you are perpetuating that?

Hmm. The 3 jobs I've gone through were all very different. One was a very small software development company, they decided after three weeks that they wanted someone with a lot more experience. I went from there to a huge corporation, where I was unhappy so I found another job. This one I'm at now is a largish "small business", like 300 employees.

I'd be confident in my ability to find another should these guys suddenly not want me. But they told me when they hired me that it wasn't even a competition, I was that much better than their other candidates. It was like that at BigCorp too.

Another thing is that all three were contract-to-hire, except for BigCorp, which omitted the hire part. I had significant accomplishments at each of them, making and delivering entire apps. This is reflected in the resume.

It's a different world out there. You really have to try people out before you can commit to them. Many times it just doesn't make sense to continue.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#96

Post by Retric »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #92
shubb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a CV through the other day from a stranger. The guy had some great experience but the CV was weird. It was 10 pages long for 4 jobs. He listed every course he'd ever been sent on, including health and safety and diversity training ones, and just mixed his degree in somewhere with them. He listed each version of word he'd used (seemly every version released) with equal prominence as Java and SQL. Each time he'd…

I'm curious about your comment "but I'm sure we could get sued if the strangeness was due to a disability." If the possibility that the candidate's "strangeness" was due to some sort of disability crossed your mind, how did you justify putting your employer at risk of a lawsuit by communicating with the candidate, particularly when your superior had directed you to ignore his submission?

Doing the right thing is worth taking a little risk. As a side note, some people send out a crap resume while on unemployment so they don't get interviews. In theory you need to look for work, but if you have a fair amount of savings and want to spend the summer surfing then it's a 'safe' way around the rules.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#97

Post by rfnslyr »

redblacktree wrote: post #86
rfnslyr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood that. Just taking a job because OH MY GOD JOB. I've been in on going salary negotiations for over two months, all while they paid me the highest contrator salary just to have me stay on. Straight up said "Pay me X or I walk, thanks". 5 second meeting. FUCK company/corporate loyalty. I'm here to get paid so I can fund an adventurous life, not to make you richer. I'm here to make myself richer and…

I'd say in a healthy employee/employer relationship, you're both making each other richer.

Absolutely not unless you are a co founder or have a significant share in the company.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#98

Post by robomartin »

jtheory wrote: post #88
robomartin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of the people I've had to fire have been salesmen who simply did not perform. At first I thought we should have a solid agreement with the sales person; one that laid down the expected metrics for the first 90 days and thereafter. My attorney insisted I understand that when you fire anyone in California you must --you must-- say nothing pertaining to the reasons for the firing. I made the mistake of…

Can you share more details of the story? I've been assuming this rule exists mostly to avoid the danger that you might accidentally phrase the reason for termination such that it could be treated as discriminatory... but this really sounds like the problem is deeper than that.

Facts matter not when the Labor Department gets involved. I walked in with a legally-binding contract done by my attorney and singed by the guy I fired. He was required to sell a certain dollar amount in 90 days. He sold exactly zero. Zero. The Labor Department mediator made me pay him several thousand dollars in ADVANCE COMMISSION I withheld at the time of firing. In reality, per the agreement, he owed ME several thousand dollars or advance commission he, effectively, never earned because he sold nothing. It didn't matter.

This happened because I told him I was letting him go because he did not sell anything. He (and the Labor Department folks, I'm sure) came up with some bullshit reason why I should pay him money anyway.

Had I given no reason whatsoever it is likely that there would have been less grounds to even bring forward a case. I'm summarizing something that is a bit more complex than the above but the overall idea is very much there.

Regrettably what you have to do is smile every day, take notes, document everything and, if the decision to fire is made, simply fire people without any explanation whatsoever. It goes something like this: "I'm sorry. I have to let you go. Here's your check." And walk them out immediately.

Oh, yes, if you can you should really consider having a witness to the firing. I was laid off twice in my life and both times there were three people in the room. Years later I would understand the reasons behind something that seemed weird and almost demeaning to me at the time.

I don't like having these kinds of relationships with people I work with but the legal framework in our state pretty much dictates you act this way for simple self preservation.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#99

Post by Renaud »

cjensen wrote: post #26

His boss fired him and told him why? Never do that. When firing someone in an at-will state, just do it and explain nothing. Explanations can easily lead to lawsuits. It's just not worth the risk.

I find it frightening that people's livelihood is subjected to the whims of their boss to such extent.

If anything, a justifiable reason as to why you are fired should be mandatory. You don't have to be a 'protected' minority to deserve a fair justification for being fired.

I'm all for the right of employers to fire who they want, but we can't expect employees to be responsible for how their actions impact the company and not expect the same in return.

He's lucky to have been a self-reliant young entrepreneur with probably other ways to make a livelihood. It could have turned very ugly had he been a father caring for a sick child without other resource than his job, all that because some nitwit didn't like his hairdo.

Duties and rights, not just one or the other.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#100

Post by nknighthb »

shubb wrote: post #56
md224 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated to the validity of this advice: it's kind of sad that our society has evolved legal structures that make it prohibitively risky to tell another human being why you're taking an action against them. Hmm... what if you could have an employee sign a release as a precondition of being told why they were fired?

I got a CV through the other day from a stranger. The guy had some great experience but the CV was weird. It was 10 pages long for 4 jobs. He listed every course he'd ever been sent on, including health and safety and diversity training ones, and just mixed his degree in somewhere with them. He listed each version of word he'd used (seemly every version released) with equal prominence as Java and SQL. Each time he'd…

You can't be liable for a disability you don't know about, and I wouldn't assume he has one.

At some point, probably around the time he was graduating from high school or college, somebody helped him put together his first resumé, and since it was naturally thin, they probably encouraged him to put in everything that might catch an employer's eye. He's probably never read anyone else's resumé.

I've seen this several times, and I've seen the opposite extreme, too. Somebody gets told early on "fit it on one page", and thinks that's how all resumés should be, forever. None of these people have any disabilities I'm conscious of, though in tech, a mild ASD would hardly be shocking. They've just been given advice that's either wrong or incomplete.

Meanwhile, I know one guy very well who does have a disability, and whose resumés have frequently been complimented. You'd have no way of knowing from them that he's in possession of a document from a psychologist that says PDD-NOS on it, and unless you know exactly what you're looking for, you're not going to notice when you meet him, either.

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