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Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

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Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#61

Post by Thrymr »

cheald wrote: post #49
md224 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated to the validity of this advice: it's kind of sad that our society has evolved legal structures that make it prohibitively risky to tell another human being why you're taking an action against them. Hmm... what if you could have an employee sign a release as a precondition of being told why they were fired?

Then you'd have them sign it before you fire them for a bullshit, actually-worthy-of-a-lawsuit reason.

In which case, the waiver may be invalid anyway, since there are rights that you cannot legally waive.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#62

Post by epoxyhockey »

greenyoda wrote: post #50
epoxyhockey wrote: post #33

One of the more frustrating things about working in the Bay Area is having to deal with finicky personalities like the OP's boss & CEO. It really takes a psychopath to court a potential hire so hard and then fire them 5 weeks later due to their appearance (after they sign a couple of large customers, btw). If this were NYC, I could understand stabbing someone in the back after they secure a couple of large customers.…

"If this were NYC, I could understand stabbing someone in the back after they secure a couple of large customers." Why would that make sense in NYC or anywhere else? If someone brought in some large customers, I'd expect them to be able to bring in more large customers in the future. Firing someone with that track record would just be stupid.

You're right, it doesn't even make sense in NYC. I've been away from the East Coast for too long, apparently.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#63

Post by PommeDeTerre »

nknighthb wrote: post #48
PommeDeTerre wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it that you're not a "person who wears a suit"? The reality of the business world is that those who control the money are often "people who wear suits". This is especially true when large sums of money are involved. If a given business wants such people (and the organizations they represent) as clients, then the business will need to conform to the expectations of these potential clients. The impact of such co…

> I take it that you're not a "person who wears a suit"? I'm a person whose life experience tells me anyone wearing a suit is, to a very high degree of probability, evil, stupid, or both. Do your justifications work both ways or not? If it's just fine to discriminate against someone for not wearing a suit, is it equally fine for me to discriminate against someone for wearing a suit? > the business will need to confor…

Of course you can distrust somebody who wears a suit. I didn't say that you couldn't, or that you shouldn't.

You keep forgetting about the context we're discussing here, though: real-world business dealings. When one party has money, and the other party wants some of it, the party with the money generally sets the tone of the business relationship. This may involve certain expectations with respect to how the people they deal with appear and behave.

Yes, maybe startups seeking business relationships with larger, wealthier organizations shouldn't put up with expectations that they feel are unreasonable. But that's not how the real world works, unfortunately. If money is to be made, then some sacrifices of various forms will very likely need to be made. I'm merely pointing out this very real fact of today's business world, and how it's plausible that appearance can play a very significant role in business relationships.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#64

Post by redthrowaway »

md224 wrote: post #40
cjensen wrote: post #26

His boss fired him and told him why? Never do that. When firing someone in an at-will state, just do it and explain nothing. Explanations can easily lead to lawsuits. It's just not worth the risk.

Unrelated to the validity of this advice: it's kind of sad that our society has evolved legal structures that make it prohibitively risky to tell another human being why you're taking an action against them. Hmm... what if you could have an employee sign a release as a precondition of being told why they were fired?

It is a sad statement, made all the more so when you have an experience that bucks the trend.

A year or so ago, I was applying for an internship at a small, local web dev shop that had some pretty cool projects in their portfolio. As the second interview was wrapping up, I had the impression that I wouldn't get the job. My default reaction would have been to simply ride out the rest of the interview, grab a coffee then move on, but for some reason I decided to ask them what their thoughts about me and my suitability for the position were.

And they told me.

They said that they would be completely candid, and asked if I wanted to proceed. I said of course. They then laid out all the areas that I had impressed them, as well as those that were red flags to them. Some of those were technical, and some were more about their general impression of me and my passion for the work.

Ultimately, I didn't get the job. I did, however, get to spend 20 minutes digging into depth on what potential employers viewed as my weaknesses and how I could go about addressing them, and that was perhaps even more valuable. They certainly weren't obliged to offer that advice, and I can't imagine they got much from it. Were we not all straight, white men in our mid 20s, I imagine they could have opened themselves up to a discrimination lawsuit. But, at the end of the day, they went out of their way to help me out and the advice stuck. I'll forever be grateful for that.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#65

Post by walshemj »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #30
vinceguidry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have marched into the CEO's office and demanded an explanation. Looked him straight in the eye and make him justify his decision.

... And probably get hauled off by security or even worse the Police?

So make sure you accidentally fall down on the way out and counter sue for GBH

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#66

Post by brianmcconnell »

FDpod wrote: post #52
PommeDeTerre wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true for you and the other 99% of customers. However, if that 1% of customers who do consider such things to matter are the most important of a given firm's customers, then their opinions on such issues can have an astronomical impact on the business.

Hi there. I'm the author of the piece (my friend just emailed me to tell me I'm on here - which is all sorts of cool and weird). I didn't run the Full Disclosure site at the time but I was doing standup comedy, which certainly could've been one of the reasons. Comedians have to have a web presence, so if you were to google my name, videos of me doing standup may have appeared. But to tell someone not to pursue their…

The way I see it, what you do off the clock is exactly none of your employer's business. Unless you are the CEO of the company, customers don't much care either.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#67

Post by crygin »

cjensen wrote: post #26

His boss fired him and told him why? Never do that. When firing someone in an at-will state, just do it and explain nothing. Explanations can easily lead to lawsuits. It's just not worth the risk.

There's a terrible irony in this as the response to a post which explicitly states: "We all need jobs. We need to be employed. But at the cost of what? Our ethics? Our passions? Those that trust us?"

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#69

Post by greenyoda »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #2

If he had competing offers, he was in a good negotiating position. I can understand believing in a great company and drinking the kool-aid, but if you have competing offers and a company explicitly states, "Salary and equity are non-negotiable" - that's a huge red flag. You should be allowed to negotiate as a savvy prospective employee. With very few exceptions, you don't want to put yourself in an environment where…

"unless you're literally at-will employee, this is grounds for liability."

"At-will" is pretty much the default in the U.S. Unless you're working under a union contract, or some other kind of contract that spells out a specific period of employment, you're probably at-will.

Re: Why I Was Fired From a Tech Startup and What My Boss Had to Say About It

#70

Post by nknighthb »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #30
vinceguidry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have marched into the CEO's office and demanded an explanation. Looked him straight in the eye and make him justify his decision.

... And probably get hauled off by security or even worse the Police?

It would be unwise for security to physically "haul" you off unless you were being violent, and even if they call the police, they will simply tell you to leave and not come back. Cops won't touch or arrest you in this situation unless you refuse to comply.

You may or may not get the answer you want, but there's not much they can do about you making the attempt.

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