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On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

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Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#311

Post by 3pt14159 »

richardjordan wrote: post #286
zeteo wrote: post #75

I disagree that the answer is moral and political and that the "ruling class" sat down to decide most people should work bullshit jobs. The phenomenon is more elegantly explained by pure economics: as less time is expended extracting resources and producing things, more energy is absorbed by the zero-sum, gimmicky game of selling and marketing them. To give credit where it's due, I first saw this credible argument on…

I've said this before in other contexts, but it doesn't have to be a conscious decision or conspiracy. A key concept from Physics that I wish was more widely understood by the populous at large is that of the "stable attractor". In chaotic systems you often get certain configurations which are locally stable, often highly stable, and they often attract more elements of the system into this configuration. It's a commo…

Since compounding interest demonstrates geometric growth, areas of allocation that match the investment rate must go up in either risk or must go down in reward or a new form of efficiency must be found that was previously unattainable. In practice this leads to concentrated wealth being misallocated (high risk) or hemorrhaged (inflationary loss) or effectively applied to the growth of a new technology (successfully invested), probably in that order of likelihood.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#312

Post by mdt »

Nursie wrote: post #301
zeteo wrote: post #75

I disagree that the answer is moral and political and that the "ruling class" sat down to decide most people should work bullshit jobs. The phenomenon is more elegantly explained by pure economics: as less time is expended extracting resources and producing things, more energy is absorbed by the zero-sum, gimmicky game of selling and marketing them. To give credit where it's due, I first saw this credible argument on…

Reminds me of the cigarette advertising ban - as soon as tobacco advertising was banned in the UK profits shot up because the huge ad budget was suddenly unnecessary. They no longer had to compete with each other on that front.

Wow, that's brilliant. Wonder what the effect on advertising agencies, TV, etc was.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#313

Post by kevinthew »

This article reads like conspiracy-laden bullshit. Not surprisingly, it came from a professor -- ego-driven, vanity jobs for rich white men. Maybe he's projecting based on his probable lifetime experience in the fake-world rat race that is the university syste, just maybe.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#314

Post by barret907k »

thyrsus wrote: post #31
mixmax wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good observation. I've put some effort into circumventing the zero-sum things, though I haven't thought about it this way before. I live on a boat that I've paid with cash, and thus own. My living expenses come down to harbour rent, electricity and heating in the winter. Over a year that's an average of $300 a month. I live in the smack middle of Copenhagen. On top of this comes living expenses, clothes, et…

That sounds wonderful, but the line I'd always heard was "A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into" - that is, they are expensive to maintain. How do you avoid that?

I think this comes from boats used for free time. They cost a lot and you spend relativly little time on it.

Now if you live on the boat you are using it which would make it more economical however I'm sure the upkeep and fuel costs more than a house would.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#315

Post by theorique »

fab13n wrote: post #105
theorique wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "inverted totalitarianism" describes this phenomenon.

> "inverted totalitarianism" describes this phenomenon. I believe it doesn't. Inverted totalitarianism supposes that a master class keeps the plebeian one controlled through apathy and deception, rather than open brute force as in classical totalitarian states. But it fundamentally frames the struggle as one group of humans against another. My point is that it's not humans versus humans, it's humans versus bureaucrac…

It's pretty much as you describe it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

The idea of IT is that there's no "Big Boss Man" at the top of the pyramid pulling the strings. It's the distributed system and choices made by individuals that leads to a similar outcome as more typical centralized totalitarian government.

Yes, there are wealthy people, privileged people, and powerful people, but they are all kept in check by the system and by pursuing their own interests, just like everyone else.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#316

Post by mikeash »

3825 wrote: post #303
mikeash wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life, ultimately, requires continuous activity to sustain. So I don't get very bent out of shape about the perpetual nature of property taxes, because it's fairly minor compared to e.g. the perpetual nature of food. You can come up with ways to replace property taxes, without a doubt. There's nothing necessary about any particular tax. The question is just whether it's the best way to do things. Water and sewer would…

>Someone sitting on prime farmland and not actually farming it is a net negative to society unless they're getting more value out of that land than a farmer would. To play the devil's advocate: Why stop at land? What about people who have gold under their mattress? Or perhaps (stick with me here) someone who owns the patents for a machine that he refuses to sell anything himself and forbids anyone else from selling a…

I don't really see a problem with either of your "devil's advocate" positions. Especially the patent one. Given where you're posting, I have no idea why you'd think that would be a "devil's advocate" idea.

A wealth tax is an interesting idea. I have to wonder why it's so uncommon. I'd guess it's some combination of being hard to enforce and easy to move money around. Such a tax would trigger a flight of capital, something that can't happen with a tax on houses. And you can't audit people's mattresses very easily, so it would just encourage hoarding cash.

In a world where such a tax could be enforced and applied worldwide, it doesn't seem like a terrible idea. It shouldn't be very large, but it could have similar effects to property taxes.

On the other hand, we already effectively have such a tax, we just call it "inflation" and the tax rate isn't directly controlled by the government. Inflation has the same good effects I described for property taxes, in that it discourages hoarding and encourages putting money to work. (It has bad effects to, no doubt, so this isn't a total endorsement of inflation or anything.)

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#317

Post by shortstuffsushi »

Reading... reading.. oh... it's the Republican's fault; they caused this...

Eventual point invalidated.

I think I've commented on HN before -- I come for tech news, which is where I could see this going. Suddenly it turned into a political discussion, and all hope for some useful resolution immediately gets lost. I really wish it would have turned out differently.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#319

Post by purplelobster »

Nursie wrote: post #301
zeteo wrote: post #75

I disagree that the answer is moral and political and that the "ruling class" sat down to decide most people should work bullshit jobs. The phenomenon is more elegantly explained by pure economics: as less time is expended extracting resources and producing things, more energy is absorbed by the zero-sum, gimmicky game of selling and marketing them. To give credit where it's due, I first saw this credible argument on…

Reminds me of the cigarette advertising ban - as soon as tobacco advertising was banned in the UK profits shot up because the huge ad budget was suddenly unnecessary. They no longer had to compete with each other on that front.

That makes me wonder what would happen if we banned advertising in general.

Re: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs

#320

Post by discodave »

3pt14159 wrote: post #311
richardjordan wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this before in other contexts, but it doesn't have to be a conscious decision or conspiracy. A key concept from Physics that I wish was more widely understood by the populous at large is that of the "stable attractor". In chaotic systems you often get certain configurations which are locally stable, often highly stable, and they often attract more elements of the system into this configuration. It's a commo…

Since compounding interest demonstrates geometric growth, areas of allocation that match the investment rate must go up in either risk or must go down in reward or a new form of efficiency must be found that was previously unattainable. In practice this leads to concentrated wealth being misallocated (high risk) or hemorrhaged (inflationary loss) or effectively applied to the growth of a new technology (successfully…

I thought that the phenomenon of risk aversion and evidence from the investment markets (stocks having higher returns than bonds) showed that people, on the whole, did not take enough risk in their investments.
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