Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

facebook.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 181 posts

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#161

Post by stusmall »

jiggypuffs wrote: post #156
stusmall wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, What is this? Some kind of 4chan style doxing? The dude is bad at his job... okay. He was a jerk to someone over email. I hope he gets fired and I've got a feeling he probably will. Lets lay off the estalking and witch hunting. There is a line and this thread is crossing it.

There's a big difference between dox'ing and re-sharing information that Andy Johnston posted publicly using his real identity. I haven't seen anybody posting his home address, identifying his relatives, harassing his friends, revealing private nicks, or really anything else that I'd associate with a 4chan style doxing.

I saw his cell number posted in here. There is no reason for that. I expected better out of this community.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#162

Post by stusmall »

SimHacker wrote: post #137
polymathist wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a good idea to publish the guy's cell number, regardless of what he's done.

That bell has already been rung, honey. That bell has already been rung. He's the one who published his personal cell phone number and office desk number in his written extortion letter, while acting as an official representative of Groupon, from his authentic Groupon email account. Not my problem. If you really want to get to the root of the problem, you might try cold calling his number, and advising HIM he shouldn…

My cell number is all over online. It took me all of about 5 min to find yours. Posting personal info here doesn't add to the conversation or help improve the situation. You are just inviting people to harass him.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#163

Post by smsm42 »

qaruxj wrote: post #159
smsm42 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He reviewed the same Sauce in the same day in different parts of town. How likely is that to be genuine? Yelp should have some algorithms to at least flag such things for manual review, it would certainly look fishy even if we didn't know the true story.

As far as I understand, Yelp is a pretty scummy company. Apparently, they frequently call small business owners and offer to hide negative reviews in exchange for payment. ( http://www.ibtimes.com/yelp-extortion-rampant-say-small-busi... ) From Yelp's perspective, it's not in their best interest to protect the companies their users review because there's no money in it for them.

The fact that Yelp allegedly sells their services by promising to manipulate Yelp results is beyond despicable, if true. However, the lawsuit has its dangers too - as making Yelp liable for reviews should be possible only if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that indeed review manipulation is a common practice at Yelp and not just a lie by a rogue salesman. I'd be very interested in a discovery process that would allow to decide this question one way or another, but I understand so far there's no hard evidence for it. So I also understand EFF's side when they say absent such proof it is very bad idea to make Yelp liable - and would have very bad implications on other sites, including this very forum.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#164

Post by chronic25 »

stusmall wrote: post #161
jiggypuffs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between dox'ing and re-sharing information that Andy Johnston posted publicly using his real identity. I haven't seen anybody posting his home address, identifying his relatives, harassing his friends, revealing private nicks, or really anything else that I'd associate with a 4chan style doxing.

I saw his cell number posted in here. There is no reason for that. I expected better out of this community.

You expect better? Then do something about it.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#165

Post by JohnTHaller »

infinitone wrote: post #36
awjr wrote: post #18

The more interesting thing is, has any restaurant had a good experience with Groupon?

More like- has any business had any? I would love to see how many times a business that tried groupon after the first time.

A lot of businesses go into Groupon thinking it'll be a great way for new customers to try it and then the business will get these great new repeat customers out of it. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen... at least in any of my friends' businesses. You'll get people looking for a deal, looking to spend as little as possible, and not interested in coming back unless you give them the same or better deal again. Additionally, the customers are much more demanding than regular clientele, as can be common with deal-hunters. This has held true across different types of businesses and different deal sites.

A business can make money off a Groupon deal if you don't think of it as a loss leader (since it will just wind up being a loss). You're not going to acquire new customers and they'll likely never come back without you offering another deal, so think of them as a one-time customer and make money off that one visit. It will only work for very high margin businesses where you can upsell a lot of add-ons. And only if you price it so you make money, even just a little bit, if the customer doesn't buy any of those add-ons.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#166

Post by greenyoda »

baddox wrote: post #145
greenyoda wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the act has to be illegal. For example, if I threaten to tell someone's wife that he's having an affair unless he gives me money, I think that would qualify as extortion. The language of the law doesn't say anything about the act being illegal: "Extortion is a criminal offense of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion." "Which Kinds of T…

Perhaps you're right, although that law doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Firstly, that first definition uses "unlawfully," which sounds circular to me. And if I'm understanding that description correctly, basically, you can't inform anyone that they have any incentive to do anything you desire. Bosses wouldn't be able to threaten to fire someone if they continue showing up to work late. Restaurant patrons couldn't…

"Bosses wouldn't be able to threaten to fire someone if they continue showing up to work late."

The employer is paying the employee to provide a service according to rules that both parties agreed to when the employee was hired. Insisting that they show up on time isn't coercing the employee, since it's something they freely agreed to as a condition of their employment.

"Restaurant patrons couldn't threaten to leave a (only one) negative review if their service is poor."

The restaurant patron is paying to be served, so they wouldn't be getting something they're not already entitled to by threatening to leave a bad review.

"but it would be illegal for me to request money from my neighbor and promise to tell his wife about his affair if he declines."

The difference here is that you're trying to force your neighbor to give you something you're not entitled to (his money) by threatening to do something bad to him. It's different from the boss or restaurant patron, who are demanding services that they've paid for.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#167

Post by SimHacker »

stusmall wrote: post #162
SimHacker wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bell has already been rung, honey. That bell has already been rung. He's the one who published his personal cell phone number and office desk number in his written extortion letter, while acting as an official representative of Groupon, from his authentic Groupon email account. Not my problem. If you really want to get to the root of the problem, you might try cold calling his number, and advising HIM he shouldn…

My cell number is all over online. It took me all of about 5 min to find yours. Posting personal info here doesn't add to the conversation or help improve the situation. You are just inviting people to harass him.

He's inviting people to harass himself by being an extortionist, not by having his cell phone number online. Feel free to call me and I'll explain!

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#168

Post by DanBC »

h4pless wrote: post #133
rohamg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0xfe your account is dead. but your comment is accurate: > Interesting. He just got one of his cronies to write a review: http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=BfVinuuuFVCAr77TnI9k... I wonder how long it's going to take before he realizes he is fucked?

I thought the same at first and honestly expected that the guy had just flat out committed libel. But after a tiny bit of research, I found that his claims about the restaurant's cleanliness were in fact accurate. ( http://bit.ly/16xkdCO ) So while he probably was just writing the review to help his friend, his review is informative and factually based so really, there is no reason to remove it or the guy's account a…

He has cherry picked some lines from the report, and ignored the 'confirmed fixed' date, and the follow-up visits.

So, while true, it is a bit misleading.

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#169

Post by dvhh »

While I agree the guy is a scum and deserve a good kick in the ball, I feel that people here (even me including to some degree) condone what we are criticizing the NSA for. I also agree that this behavior is also destroying not only whatever remains of groupon reputation, but is also hurting Yelp as well (which should detect this kind of abuse but wont , because an inflated number of reviews is more trusted than a few verified ones).

Re: Groupon sales rep threatens restaurant with negative Yelp reviews

#170

Post by SimHacker »

mathattack wrote: post #151
droithomme wrote: post #6

Isn't this a protection-money racket (extortion) from a legal perspective? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket > "Extortion is a criminal offense of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion." > "In the United States, extortion may also be committed as a federal crime across a computer system, phone, by m…

I think I would have written a hardcopy letter to the CEO, cc:ing every member of the board of directors asking how they would protect my business from the slander. I don't see how the offending employee doesn't get fired, but I think I would have given the boss a way to make me whole before going public.

Nothing could compare to the positive publicity and support that Sauce is getting from the community for going public about the extortion instead of seeking private compensation. No way could Groupon could have offered them any "deals" that would bring them as much good publicity and customers as this event will. And it would be unethical for Sauce to seek compensation for keeping it private.

What you suggest is more like extorting Groupon back by insisting on compensation for keeping quiet about the extortion -- instead of warning other businesses and customers about Groupon's criminal activities, and preventing it from happening to others in the future.

Obviously Sauce is not the only company who suffered from Groupon's extortion, and I'm sure Andy Johnston is not the only extortionist working at Groupon. Sauce keeping it under their hat in exchange for a free Groupon deal would be unethical and idiotic.

Groupon deals don't even work well, and Sauce already wanted nothing to do with them.

Post reply on HN