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NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

theguardian.com

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Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#41

Post by coreyja »

bdcravens wrote: post #27

It's important to note that it's not "free the weed, man!" It would be grown by government approved vendors and taxed. Private growing would likely be illegal. Sales by non-government approved vendors would likely be illegal. I'm certain the government would allow allow a single FDA approved variety: you wouldn't see the higher powered varieties or growing techniques. It would more highly regulated than cigarettes or…

I doubt this actually. I assume it would be more like how the laws are in Colorado with Amendment 64. Adults, over 21, can grow up to 6 plants and posses up to an ounce. Growers are regulated, similarly to distilleries, but they are not government run. Sales are still taxed, just as tobacco and alcohol. With this we will still see all the different strains that we see now with medical marijuana in states that allow it. So as long as you are over 21, and not smoking in public and have under an ounce there would no possession charges, regardless of the strength or strain.

That's how I see this happening, and what makes the most sense to me.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#42

Post by jlgreco »

threeseed wrote: post #36
e40 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that's because technical people tend to look at facts when they analyze a situation?

Give us all a break. 'Technical people' are just as (if not more likely) to be biased than ordinary people. Marijuana is safer than cigarettes and alcohol but it is hardly harmless and we definitely don't know enough about its effect on the brain especially amongst younger users. But of course you will often see such concerns dismissed.

> Marijuana is safer than cigarettes and alcohol

And few people are seriously proposing that we regulated it less than alcohol and cigarettes, so where exactly is the irrational bias?

It doesn't have to be magical hippy juice to legalize it, being safer than alcohol or tobacco is reason enough to legalize it. Hell, the clear racial motivations for the initial banning and the continuation of it are reason enough to legalize it.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#43

Post by harshreality »

jlgreco wrote: post #34
harshreality wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

carrying an illegal handgun while also dealing would of course not be pardoned Why? If dealing pot shouldn't be a crime, why should being prepared to defend yourself with a handgun while dealing pot be a crime? I don't understand the "illegal" qualifier. Isn't it always illegal to carry a handgun when dealing pot? Isn't having a handgun while committing a federal crime also a federal crime? Obviously there are drug d…

Because carrying an illegal/unlicnesed handgun in NYC, with our without also being a drug dealer, is, well, illegal. Maybe that isn't right, but that is the reality of that situation. If this were Vermont that we were talking about, then the situation would be different.

I take a strongly libertarian view of that issue. Not only should gun carry by itself not be a crime, but the only reason most of these drug dealers carry guns is because they are in a business where the legal system won't protect them, not to mention the reason they usually get caught carrying guns is that they were also involved in drug dealing. Cops go looking for drugs, and they find drugs and guns. If they weren't looking for drugs, they mostly wouldn't find guns either.

We're talking about a hypothetical ideal legal policy with regard to drugs, right? Why the return to the status quo the moment guns are in the picture?

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#44

Post by 616c »

As someone with a friend who, in a different state and different circumstances, foolishly was detained on a road trip in a state with a strict no-tolerance policy, was subsequently arrested and tried by some small prick DA in the middle of nowehre to teach a lesson with his "sorry, I don't make exceptions because we want to look hard on drugs" apologism, I hope decriminalization succeeds at least in the short term.

That friend had trouble finding work and grad school for years because this haunted him, and everyone asks in advance about your criminal record. It was all over a dime bag, and using crooked legal tactics.

Another friend, reminiscent of an article previously posted here, was in the Midwest (we grew up on the East Coast) and stopped for a busted headlight. They then found a negligible amount of weed. He was detained and then arrested on the spot. He was told he either call his parents, as he was a minor, and to pay a wopping 1,000 USD fine, or face charges and a court date, in which case pleading innocent and receiving a guilty verdict would mean doubled fines and potential jail time. You can guess what his parents did when they got that phone call in the middle of the night.

And don't worry, they never had a problem scrubbing this from their record, as youths who had fun. Their record would never ruin their adult (+21) lives, no?

All I have to say is, what the hell is wrong with us as society we penalize people so harshly (let's not kid, the non-white kids I knew got worse variations of these stories) for something so much less powerful than alcohol (I would love to see someone argue with me re this point after four years in the very wet college environment in contemporary America)?

Screw it. I hope this guy, and those like him win. But there is something so disgustingly Puritan and fascist, I feel myself working up the "he was a real reactonary" voice of Big Lebowski, full of snark.

Sorry, end rant.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#46

Post by verbin217 »

threeseed wrote: post #36
e40 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that's because technical people tend to look at facts when they analyze a situation?

Give us all a break. 'Technical people' are just as (if not more likely) to be biased than ordinary people. Marijuana is safer than cigarettes and alcohol but it is hardly harmless and we definitely don't know enough about its effect on the brain especially amongst younger users. But of course you will often see such concerns dismissed.

> 'Technical people' are just as (if not more likely) to be biased than ordinary people.

True but they at least have facts ready to support their biases. ;)

So many nerds assume they're above confirmation bias without considering the sophistication effect.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#47

Post by jlgreco »

harshreality wrote: post #43
jlgreco wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because carrying an illegal/unlicnesed handgun in NYC, with our without also being a drug dealer, is, well, illegal. Maybe that isn't right, but that is the reality of that situation. If this were Vermont that we were talking about, then the situation would be different.

I take a strongly libertarian view of that issue. Not only should gun carry by itself not be a crime, but the only reason most of these drug dealers carry guns is because they are in a business where the legal system won't protect them, not to mention the reason they usually get caught carrying guns is that they were also involved in drug dealing. Cops go looking for drugs, and they find drugs and guns. If they weren…

My thinking here is that NY changing their pot laws seems more plausible than them changing their gun laws... Certainly changing pot laws is what is being proposed here, not gun laws.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#49

Post by saraid216 »

jlgreco wrote: post #16
shoo wrote: post #3

"David Simon, creator of The Wire, says new US drug laws help only 'white, middle-class kids'" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/25/the-wire-creato...

I don't get it. Marijuana laws are used against minorities all the time, not just middle class white kids[1]. Furthermore he talks of decriminalization as the solution, not legalization. Plenty of states have already decriminalized marijuana , but only two have legalized ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_non-medici... ). Decriminalization allows the state to continue using pot as a weapon against th…

I think part of his point is that, for "10-12%" of Americans, these laws actually make them go from unemployed in the official sense to actually having no meaningful income in the literal sense. In other words, it will make many bad situations even worse.

> As a result, "drugs are the only industry left in places such as Baltimore and east St Louis" – an industry that employs "children, old people, people who've been shooting drugs for 20 years, it doesn't matter. It's the only factory that's still open. The doors are open."

I'm certainly not going to agree that that's a reason not to do what we have, but that race/poverty line point he's making isn't just about arrests.

Re: NY Comptroller: Legalise marijuana, tax it and end wrongheaded war on pot

#50

Post by angersock »

threeseed wrote: post #36
e40 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that's because technical people tend to look at facts when they analyze a situation?

Give us all a break. 'Technical people' are just as (if not more likely) to be biased than ordinary people. Marijuana is safer than cigarettes and alcohol but it is hardly harmless and we definitely don't know enough about its effect on the brain especially amongst younger users. But of course you will often see such concerns dismissed.

"it is hardly harmless and we definitely don't know enough about its effect on the brain especially amongst younger users"

I'm a great deal more worried about tobacco and alcohol binging in youths, or in the privacy nonsense and the social stuff, then I am about some weed.

If you really want to argue "Think of the children!" look at Portugal's decriminalization for the past decade, and see if they have any numbers for you. Stop scaremongering.

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