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Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

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Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#81
post #77

So what is the chance they put out an insurance file that they know can be decrypted by the NSA and has really damaging documents in it? I mean it would be a way of showing the NSA what you have, having it already in the hands of a bunch of other people. I wonder if that would be a useful strategy. It could give the NSA time to build a counter story (parallel construction :-) which would be mitigate some of the impac…

If they're releasing something that they could reasonably expect the NSA to be able to crack, there's a non-zero chance other governments would be able to read it as well. That's not really "responsible disclosure" anymore. It would be safer to just send the decryption key directly to the NSA on a CD. ;)

Well, that also lets the NSA (or anybody who intercepts the CD) release the key to try and make it look like it came from Wikileaks.

Depending on how an adversary times that, it could be damaging for Wikileaks.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#82
post #30

I wonder what are the risks associated with downloading and sharing such torrents. Evidently, anyone getting them becomes a highly visible target and once the content of these torrents is known, you could become involved in the distribution of classified data. Even if the content is not known, it could be viewed as an 'unfriendly' act and could make you become a "target of interest" to some zealous 3-letter agency...…

"You could become involved in the distribution of classified data." IANAL, but I believe the espionage act contains a mens rea requirement.

Mens rea is a state of intent, not knowledge.

Suppose, for example, that you discovered a locked storage box with 'property of Big Bank' on the outside. You're supposed to report found items to the police; instead you take it home. Someone sees you and the police turn up; it emerges the box contains a lot of money, and you are charged with theft. You argue at trial that no mens rea existed because you didn't know about the money; true, but the possibility that a locked box belonging to Big Bank would be full of cash was what motivated you to take it home. If, on the other hand, the both contained a brick, you could still be charged with attempt because your intent in picking up the box was impure, even if the contents were valueless.

In this case, Wikileaks 'insurance' documents have in the past contained classified information; they are meant to function as insurance because the contents would embarrass or injure someone if revealed; revelation would be contingent on Wikileaks' dissolution or disablement; and it's reasonable to suppose that only a government could bring that about. Thus, your decision to host the files, even without knowledge of their content, involves an awareness of the strong possibility that they do contain classified information. So whatever the contents actually turn out to be, you would be judged on your intent given the information available at the time.

Now you might also argue that there was some higher interest motivating your actions, eg the belief that all secrecy is evil and that nothing should be classified, ever. But such moral beliefs are normative, ie expressions of what you think the law should be; they have no bearing on what the law actually is, and it is the latter which is supposed to govern your actions. For comparison, I might hold a sincere belief that any insult to a person's honor justifies violent retaliation; but if I kill someone in defense of my honor, that won't spare my from charges of murder, because my private belief is not the law of the land, no matter how sincerely it is held.

In short, don't take deliberately engineered ignorance as equivalent to innocence.

You may find this law review article of interest: http://www.columbialawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/... This discusses a narrower reading of mens rea than I have outlined above, but bear in mind the elevated likelihood of a public welfare argument in a case where national security turns out to be at stake. So I would be reluctant to rely on Flores-Figueroa as an escape hatch because that was a case in which the harm largely befell a single individual (the lawful possessor of the identifying information that F-F appropriated), as opposed to the general public whose collective security could be compromised by the release of classified information, personified in the form of the Untied States.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#83
post #30

I wonder what are the risks associated with downloading and sharing such torrents. Evidently, anyone getting them becomes a highly visible target and once the content of these torrents is known, you could become involved in the distribution of classified data. Even if the content is not known, it could be viewed as an 'unfriendly' act and could make you become a "target of interest" to some zealous 3-letter agency...…

Apparently having used TOR makes you a person of interest. Not that difficult.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#84
post #79
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand the law correctly, U.S. citizens cannot be assassinated by its own government without the benefit of due process.

You do state the law correctly, your confusion seems instead to be with regards to the phrase "due process." It means literally what it says: everyone is entitled to "due" (i.e. warranted) process, not judicial process. What process is "due" in any given case? It is, on its face, a context-sensitve inquiry. If you trace the due process clause back to its origins in Clause 39 of the Magna Carta, you'll see that it is…

Before mentioning "due process", the Fifth Amendment states:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger..."

The exclusion for "cases arising in the land or naval forces" apparently applies to members of the U.S. military, who can be tried under military law (like Bradley Manning was). [1]

Furthermore, the Sixth Amendment says:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

So I don't understand how the Constitution allows the federal government the right to execute a citizen without judicial process. Any references would be sincerely appreciated.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, I meant the 3 hours per month on her laptop, and the 57 hours per week she's working, but not on her laptop. Maybe she's a ho (a busy one at that!) that does her own bookkeeping and accounting!

Hm, is there a market there? Tracking of tricks, scheduling hoes, budgeting, tracking money in drug/alcohol funds, and oversight dashboards for pimps? I mean, they need software too, right?

Can't do it as iOS app (would never get through AppStore, and I bet most pimps can't jailbreak their phones), so it's either Android or HTML5, but it might get a decent market.

The real problem is that the target demographic is hard to monetize. Can't sign 'em up with a trackable CC, they're not a good target for advertisers, and your service is likely to attract a made-in-NSA parallel construction from FBI and friends.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#86
post #30

I wonder what are the risks associated with downloading and sharing such torrents. Evidently, anyone getting them becomes a highly visible target and once the content of these torrents is known, you could become involved in the distribution of classified data. Even if the content is not known, it could be viewed as an 'unfriendly' act and could make you become a "target of interest" to some zealous 3-letter agency...…

If I understand the law correctly, only military people have any prohibition about touching, reading, distributing, etc classified data. Normal citizens agreed to no such terms.

Your right of way will not prevent you from being run over by a tank.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#87
post #65
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyway, if I were on the NSA's office, watching everyday comments on Hacker-News ..." Wait, wait. You're saying there's a way to get paid to read HN all day? Where do I sign?

And for watching porn...

Ah, Rule 34, by our own cstross: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#88
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do state the law correctly, your confusion seems instead to be with regards to the phrase "due process." It means literally what it says: everyone is entitled to "due" (i.e. warranted) process, not judicial process. What process is "due" in any given case? It is, on its face, a context-sensitve inquiry. If you trace the due process clause back to its origins in Clause 39 of the Magna Carta, you'll see that it is…

Before mentioning "due process", the Fifth Amendment states: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger..." The exclusion for "cases arising in the land or naval forces" apparently applies to members of…

> So I don't understand how the Constitution allows the federal government the right to execute a citizen without judicial process. Any references would be sincerely appreciated.

I think you'll be waiting a long time for rayiner to give you one.

Re: Wikileaks Releases New 'Insurance' Files

#90
post #79
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand the law correctly, U.S. citizens cannot be assassinated by its own government without the benefit of due process.

You do state the law correctly, your confusion seems instead to be with regards to the phrase "due process." It means literally what it says: everyone is entitled to "due" (i.e. warranted) process, not judicial process. What process is "due" in any given case? It is, on its face, a context-sensitve inquiry. If you trace the due process clause back to its origins in Clause 39 of the Magna Carta, you'll see that it is…

You may be right that my understanding of the due process clause is confused. It's been over a decade since I went to law school and I'm getting up in the years, so it wouldn't be completely surprising.

However, I think you miss the point of my response in context of the comment I was responding to. The point of my comment was that our government has taken a very fluid approach to the law to fit its needs versus American citizens/non-citizens. If one feels a certain comfort that the law will protect him/her in the course of some action that seems fully protected by the law today, you might be in for a rude awakening tomorrow.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/09/obama-assassin...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-team...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

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