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“People simply empty out”

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#441

Post by gaius »

kokotko wrote: post #297
homosaur wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plasti…

I think more and more Gen Y people in advanced European countries see owning a car as a failure - you are a fool for wasting money, when transportation can be done cheaply and also often for free. You are basically penalized for owning a car by high taxes, and for those few occassions in a year when you need a car (moving stuff) it's easy enough to rent. Spending your life in traffic jams is just a plain fail. Having…

I think you may need to recalibrate your idea of failure. I own a car specifically so I can load it up with gear at the weekends and go diving or camping. I know a few people who are rabidly anti-car and ride fixies. They spend their weekends bar-hopping and nursing hangovers. Fair enough, but that's not the lifestyle that particularly interests me.

Having to wear a nice suit is not failure either. Both cars and suits are just tools. It's what you use a tool for that matters. Also I'll note if you resent wearing a suit, you have never actually worn a nice one...

Re: “People simply empty out”

#442

Post by pond_lilly »

nhangen wrote: post #359

I have three things to say about this: 1. Many people are horrified by the thought of not being a simple worker bee. They say they want change, but they don't. They want the security of someone else taking care of them. The reason wealth exists is because there are people that cannot live this way, and thus, make their own way. You cannot fault hard working business owners because their employees put themselves in a…

> Life is suffering. There is no perfection on this realm. Solve this problem and another will follow. This is a symptom of life in samsara.

this is why Buddhism is so dangerous to the Western society, because of this. Life is dukkha, so go mediate to disassociate like a victim of a rape, then go back to work, slave.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#443

Post by specialist »

taigeair wrote: post #440

It's my opinion that people live the life they choose. No one is tricking you into it. Who's to say which way of life is right? Some people enjoy the pleasures of material things and stability. Some enjoy risk and experiences. People always are a bit jealous of the other side but probably are happier with the road they chose.

1/2 true.

I didn't choose...

To have my ass kicked, repeatedly, both at home and at school.

To be bounced around as a child, moving 28 times before graduating, having 3 foster families

To have a grave life threatening illness.

To become a young parent (thought I was sterile, but it only takes one, right)?

Things I did choose...

Somehow avoided drugs.

Books and computers, mostly as escapism, lucky me geeks now do well economically.

Became a stable parent, deferring my dreams until my son graduated.

Always trying to improve my well being, eg exercise, nutrition, seeking new treatments for my diseases, etc.

Conclusion...

I've been on the streets and in support groups with others who had their choices taken away, didn't have access to the resources and opportunities I had, or simply didn't know they were born awesome and could choose life.

And I recognize that many have had things far worse than me.

We're all just trying to do the best we know how.

So I try not to judge.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#444

Post by pinaceae »

blackhole wrote: post #5

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

so this is something i don't get - why is your worklife something separated from your personal one? you spend the vast majority of your awake time working (as an adult), so why have this mindset?

once you realize that work by definition is your life, you'll take it more seriously, especially if it is harmful to you. you do not have to swallow each and every bullshit thrown at you, this is your life. you want to travel, experience other cultures? use work to reach this goal. nothing shows you other cultures like working with them directly, on the ground. lots of consulting gigs allow you to do this.

i also don't get this inherent fear that seems prevalent in US corporate culture. well, i fundamentally understand, in Europe you can't get fired on a whim, but over here in US I see this amazing mindset around CEOs and how people behave around them. Massaging emails until they definitely won't cause a ruckus, filtering, keeping silent. Why? Because CEO.

your work time is your life time. treat it as such.

coincidentally the people I have met that have understood this seem to have great careers. they go all in and are not driven by fear. my first boss called this mindset "scheiss di ned aun", viennese for "don't shit yourself". life's too short to be afraid of suits and orgcharts.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#445

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway1979 wrote: post #299
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply to this: anytime I see 50 year old bold fat guy in a Porsche 911 it's depressing. EDIT: should really be pathetic and sad and not depressing, but I think you get my point. Youth and health are so precious that no amount of money compensates ever.

If even that were true! I really don't see my 40s and 50s being better than now. Personally, my biggest weakness is that I am passionate about the technology and getting my hands dirty. If I start getting practice in management, crafting bold powerpoints, dressing up, etc. I think I'd go far in tech in my later days. But I won't because I love getting my hands on code. sigh

[deleted]

Re: “People simply empty out”

#446

Post by fc2 »

medell wrote: post #36
blackhole wrote: post #5

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

"I wish I worked more" - said no one ever on their death bed.

Surely it's been said more often than "I should have stayed home and watched more sitcoms".

Re: “People simply empty out”

#447

Post by karlzt »

pinaceae wrote: post #444
blackhole wrote: post #5

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

so this is something i don't get - why is your worklife something separated from your personal one? you spend the vast majority of your awake time working (as an adult), so why have this mindset? once you realize that work by definition is your life, you'll take it more seriously, especially if it is harmful to you. you do not have to swallow each and every bullshit thrown at you, this is your life. you want to trave…

To do is to be.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#448

Post by enraged_camel »

sliverstorm wrote: post #421
enraged_camel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the whole point of Buddhism is that capitalism teaches people to want more than they need. It is not an inherent human quality. Our ancestors in the African Savannah weren't going out of their way to acquire material goods. They were lean .

Our ancestors in the African Savannah weren't going out of their way to acquire material goods. Then how do you explain the necklaces, earrings, headpieces, etc etc etc found in the histories of tribes all around the world all through history?

I think you missed the "going out of their way" part.

Can you imagine a tribesman thinking, "man, I should work extra hard today and bring home more meat so I can afford that necklace the other guy has"?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#449

Post by smsm42 »

lsc wrote: post #174
orofino wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem though - you don't need to buy the BMW or the suburban McMansion. Save that money instead and when you're in your 40 you can tell the boss that he should give you job to a whipper-snapper, you're headed to Thailand. No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social secu…

>No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky. I think that we in the tech industry are... different here. In other industries, there is a /lot/ of pressure to look the part (well, to look an /expensive/ part.) Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car…

>> Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car worth less than thirty grand?

I've not only seen such an agent, I've engaged hers & his (they're a couple) services to buy my house. And it was just fine. Of course, I don't know the exact price tag on their car, but it was a moderately old suv, nothing flashy, probably nowhere near 30K. Actually, I'd be more vary of an agent with a really expensive car - if he's already so rich, would he care about getting my money enough?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#450

Post by smsm42 »

dalek_cannes wrote: post #415
epo wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, you people are delusional! You are not perceived as eccentric geniuses, not by anyone. Never, ever. They might say that to keep you on the treadmill but the the truth is that (especially by VCs) you are perceived as cannon fodder with a personal hygiene problem. You are kept around as long as you are useful and don't bitch too much. The minute that stops you are out on your ear. Welcome to the real world.

You're clearly thinking of IT support and entry level programmers. They're not judged at that level. However, if you have 5-10 years industry experience, a degree and have worked in some management capacity, you're expected to look a certain part. Unless, that is, you're known for doing things that other people say can't be done. Then you get to live simply. Anecdotally, and off the top of my head, I can name at leas…

>>> have worked in some management capacity, you're expected to look a certain part

If you're talking about dressing cleanly, not betraying only passing acquaintance with showers by one's smell and being able to appear in public without shocking small children into tears - yes, sure. But that costs next to no money. Beyond that - nobody could care less which car you're driving and which house you're living in, unless you're a bank president or some other C level executive or business owner, where your conspicuous consumption skills may imply the success of your business. If you, however, are a professional, there's no problem with living simply, should you wish so, if that doesn't imply looking like a dervish or living literally in a cave.

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