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“People simply empty out”

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#401

Post by nhangen »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #395
nhangen wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Been there done that. During a period in my twenties, I had lost my job, had a negative bank balance, and two kids to feed. I was on foodstamps while I worked at the Olive Garden making very little while spending far too long in college subsidized by grants and student loans. I finally graduated, got another job, and was let go within a year. I now had tons of debt and a degree that was almost worthless…

The fact that "make the sacrifices necessary" is a useful attitude for you does not mean the cost-benefit/risk structure is actually adequate for everyone else.

Which proves my point exactly.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#402

Post by eli_gottlieb »

grey-area wrote: post #284
mrow84 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right; as I said "these problems are not (or at least very unlikely to be) the result of a direct conspiracy by some elite group." Further: "I don't think history supports that view, and I don't believe people are particularly capable of maintaining such a conspiracy for so long a period of time. It should be clear, however, that the "conspiracy" could itself be an emergent part of the system - a higher order…

You're tilting at windmills. I didn't claim our current system is perfect or uncorrupted (the phrase least worst system clearly points out that our current systems are flawed). I don't think social improvement (however you define that) inevitably leads to some kind of totalitarianism, but I do think people claiming to have all the answers to creating a fairer society have turned out to be tyrannical more often than n…

they're not going to make people face with sober senses their real conditions of life, and their relations with others in society.

I do love me some Marx on a Friday afternoon!

Re: “People simply empty out”

#403

Post by nhangen »

hnnnnng wrote: post #396
nhangen wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. The government offers grants and loans for those with low incomes. I should know, that's how I paid for school. Skillsets and education must be earned; they are not granted. You're still failing to provide evidence as to how the corporation is the party at fault.

So, loans are the answer to everything? Are corporations guaranteeing higher wages and certain jobs to everyone with degrees? What about : http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/ripping-off-young-... from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6224982 Did you even look at that? Just because you were lucky enough to be able to pay off your loans doesnt mean everyone is. What if they dont find a job in their field? An…

I didn't pay my loans, the army did, after I returned from Afghanistan.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#404

Post by nhangen »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #392
nhangen wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increase wages why? Corporations are not charities, and they have never purported that they are. How is a corporation responsible for someone else's lack of education or skillset?

Because everyone is responsible for everyone else, on some level. This is pretty basic freaking stuff.

I didn't think everyone would agree with you on that.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#405

Post by eli_gottlieb »

nhangen wrote: post #401
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that "make the sacrifices necessary" is a useful attitude for you does not mean the cost-benefit/risk structure is actually adequate for everyone else.

Which proves my point exactly.

Not at all. I'm referring to many people in the First World.

There's also the structural issue: not everyone can be an entrepreneur, because companies need worker bees to run. You can't run such a strongly hierarchical system as capitalism without some level of social-democratic concessions to enforce that, outside the workplace, my boss and I really are equal human beings.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#406

Post by gh322 »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #395
nhangen wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Been there done that. During a period in my twenties, I had lost my job, had a negative bank balance, and two kids to feed. I was on foodstamps while I worked at the Olive Garden making very little while spending far too long in college subsidized by grants and student loans. I finally graduated, got another job, and was let go within a year. I now had tons of debt and a degree that was almost worthless…

The fact that "make the sacrifices necessary" is a useful attitude for you does not mean the cost-benefit/risk structure is actually adequate for everyone else.

Natural selection then takes hold.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#407

Post by mkr-hn »

nhangen wrote: post #381
Loughla wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those positions require very little skill, and provide very little pay. Correct. The next part is where most people today get the argument wrong; it isn't that those jobs should pay more for the arbitrary sake of paying more. Those type of jobs are the step for many people that not just have no more steps to take, but have never had any walkway to stand on. Their entire lives have been spent just trying to make it to…

You're right. Been there done that. During a period in my twenties, I had lost my job, had a negative bank balance, and two kids to feed. I was on foodstamps while I worked at the Olive Garden making very little while spending far too long in college subsidized by grants and student loans. I finally graduated, got another job, and was let go within a year. I now had tons of debt and a degree that was almost worthless…

"I did, therefore everyone can" is my favorite fallacy.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#408

Post by mahyarm »

nasmorn wrote: post #256
Dewie wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. My father is almost 70, and going on hikes with him leaves me pretty winded. Certainly no walk in the park. I'm just a little more than one third of his age. If he would do some strength training in addition to his jogs and hikes, I imagine he would be in great overall shape. I don't think that I'l…

My father in law is turning 78 and still does 200km bike rides that I cant keep up with. He trains very dedicated about 5 times a week for the last 15 years. Which was the mOst surprising part to me. I always thought no performabce could be gained that late in life much less so much.

Your father has a lot of time for recovery, making all the perfect food and exercising in the first place that lets him beat the average chair sitting office worker.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#409

Post by gbog »

blackhole wrote: post #5

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

Here the audience might think "create a startup" but I think this quote may resonate the strongest with those who forgot to have kids in time.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#410

Post by pessimizer »

nhangen wrote: post #359

I have three things to say about this: 1. Many people are horrified by the thought of not being a simple worker bee. They say they want change, but they don't. They want the security of someone else taking care of them. The reason wealth exists is because there are people that cannot live this way, and thus, make their own way. You cannot fault hard working business owners because their employees put themselves in a…

Governments always have all of the money. They issue it, and they define it by only accepting their type of money in order to pay their taxes. They hold that value by being strong enough and/or well-connected enough to defend themselves from physical threats from inside and out, and enough to extract taxes and fees from individuals in order to pull that money back out of circulation. In order to do this, they have all the guns.

Government has all of the money and all of the guns. We're already screwed. What we need to focus on is making the government help us structure a better society - a kinder, safer, braver, smarter society. The further we get from that ideal, the closer we get to a world where we will again remember that money can't save you from the people with all the guns. Khodorkovsky thought money was worth something.

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