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“People simply empty out”

lettersofnote.com

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#361

Post by scotty79 »

tomp wrote: post #221
scotty79 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You won't have life if you don't work - or coerce it from others. There are some exceptions. You don't have to work a single day in your life if: - you inherited wealth. - you are homeless and sustain yourself with whatever you can get without paying. - you commit crimes and are put in prison. - you are a woman and merry well. - you build something as a hobby and it makes big. > That doesn't give much room for the…

> plain, abundant and worthless in our modern world as food. Excuse me, but you're an idiot. (Unless your whole comment is meant as a joke.) People exchange things that are worth less for things that are worth more. In such an exchange, both parties profit, always . In the case above, you exchange hours of your life for food so that you can live another day. Also, people are the only source of wealth. Right now, mach…

> People exchange things that are worth less for things that are worth more. In such an exchange, both parties profit, always.

Someone puts gun to your head and tells you to cut off your left hand in exchange for him not pulling the trigger. Both parties benefit from such exchange. You get the rest of your life, and he gets his amusement. Wouldn't you agree that such exchange wouldn't be exactly just and free?

Let's assume that this trade is unfair even though you might see it as benefiting both parties in some way so unfair trades exist. One might say that it would be illegal and all legal trades are free. But if law can so perfectly tell fair trade from unfair trade then why the law changes over time? And how do we know that now the law is perfect, not like it was 100 years ago or like it will be 100 years in the future?

My comments were serious, so I guess I'm idiot, at least from your point of view.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#362

Post by brianpgordon »

nhangen wrote: post #359

I have three things to say about this: 1. Many people are horrified by the thought of not being a simple worker bee. They say they want change, but they don't. They want the security of someone else taking care of them. The reason wealth exists is because there are people that cannot live this way, and thus, make their own way. You cannot fault hard working business owners because their employees put themselves in a…

I would reframe #1 in terms of acceptable risk. If you're very risk-averse - for example, if you're raising a family and it is absolutely unacceptable to you to fail financially - then it's difficult to justify giving up the security of regular employment.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#363

Post by AznHisoka »

nhangen wrote: post #359

I have three things to say about this: 1. Many people are horrified by the thought of not being a simple worker bee. They say they want change, but they don't. They want the security of someone else taking care of them. The reason wealth exists is because there are people that cannot live this way, and thus, make their own way. You cannot fault hard working business owners because their employees put themselves in a…

I agree on #3. Solve the money problem, and you'll then lament about the sex problem.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#364

Post by scotty79 »

tomp wrote: post #283
king_jester wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People exchange things that are worth less for things that are worth more. In such an exchange, both parties profit, always. In the case above, you exchange hours of your life for food so that you can live another day. There are some goods that have so high a value it will be worth trading almost anything for it. Eating is one, medical care is another. This fact is routinely exploited so that those not in danger of…

1) Yes, by definition. If the workers wouldn't think that they are getting more (food) than they give (time), they wouldn't work. 2) However, the question whether this is socially or even globally fair is not a question of capitalism, but of politics/government. If things continue this way, sooner or later there will be too many unemployed people and there will be a revolt/class revolution. I believe the elite will w…

> I believe the elite will work hard to prevent it, by introducing some kind of wealth/capital tax that will redistribute wealth to the not-haves.

You are an optimist then. I think more popular sentiment seem to be rather that elite will use its advantage to develop surveillance, law and prison system to detain whoever opposes them. After all they had one communist revolution to learn such things have to be actively mitigated.

You might argue that keeping poor in prison is a way of providing for them. And since less and less criminal people will go there it might some day become some sort support center for homeless/jobless.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#365

Post by anactofgod »

I enjoy Bukowski's work.

But the insights he shares in this letter are tempered by the fact that he didn't quit his job at the Post Office until after a would-be patron "employed" him to write.

Still... Some people never go crazy...

Re: “People simply empty out”

#366

Post by newnewnew »

ra88it wrote: post #264
rhdoenges wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't stomach the guy. He was an abusive drunk who thought it was funny to kick women. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8KJiay6EI0

And then somebody reduces the man to this awful youtube clip where he's drunk and fighting with his fiancé, where he kicks her meanly from across the couch, several times. And I have to remember: that's just this thread, this thread will pass. It's Friday. I'm in a decent mood. Let's find something to eat, start thinking about what I will work on today.

Every argument is ad hominem nowadays. It is the sickness of the post-modern era[1]. Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner. Charles Bukowski kicked a woman. Paula Dean once used a racial slur referring to a man that robbed her at gunpoint. Leonidas probably opposed women in the military.

Let's throw out all of human history and art and listen to the pious, sniveling PC morons of the last 10 years. That is the modern world for ya.

[1] http://arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kwesthue/regiftedxmas12.html

Re: “People simply empty out”

#367

Post by lsc »

dalek_cannes wrote: post #222
lsc wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky. I think that we in the tech industry are... different here. In other industries, there is a /lot/ of pressure to look the part (well, to look an /expensive/ part.) Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car…

There's a way out of the looking-the-part problem. Cultivate an image of an eccentric genius (and work hard to actually have genius level skills) and people will start to focus more on what you can do and less on what you look like you can do . In fact, that's why the tech industry seems to get an exemption -- they're mostly perceived as eccentric geniuses. Also, spend lavishly on the best clothes, eat lavishly, but…

>There's a way out of the looking-the-part problem. Cultivate an image of an eccentric genius

Yeah, this is what I was talking about with our industry being different. This is... common for programmers. You don't even have to be uncommonly good, just useful.

But I think this is dramatically harder in other industries; to the point where I've never met, say, a real-estate agent like that, or a lawyer.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#368

Post by nhangen »

brianpgordon wrote: post #362
nhangen wrote: post #359

I have three things to say about this: 1. Many people are horrified by the thought of not being a simple worker bee. They say they want change, but they don't. They want the security of someone else taking care of them. The reason wealth exists is because there are people that cannot live this way, and thus, make their own way. You cannot fault hard working business owners because their employees put themselves in a…

I would reframe #1 in terms of acceptable risk. If you're very risk-averse - for example, if you're raising a family and it is absolutely unacceptable to you to fail financially - then it's difficult to justify giving up the security of regular employment.

Beyond that, most people just don't have what it takes to do anything else.

We romanticism entrepreneurship often, and for good reason. It takes a lot more than wanting to be free of 9-5 bondage in order to be successful, and that's just to get to the point where luck can play a part.

I try to share my enthusiasm with others but often meet responses like:

'Must be nice to be so:'

talented/lucky/smart/blessed with understanding wife/motivated/etc

So in the end, I grew tired of talking and just tried to lead with actions. Most got bored and stopped paying attention.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#369

Post by badman_ting »

newnewnew wrote: post #366
ra88it wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then somebody reduces the man to this awful youtube clip where he's drunk and fighting with his fiancé, where he kicks her meanly from across the couch, several times. And I have to remember: that's just this thread, this thread will pass. It's Friday. I'm in a decent mood. Let's find something to eat, start thinking about what I will work on today.

Every argument is ad hominem nowadays. It is the sickness of the post-modern era[1]. Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner. Charles Bukowski kicked a woman. Paula Dean once used a racial slur referring to a man that robbed her at gunpoint. Leonidas probably opposed women in the military. Let's throw out all of human history and art and listen to the pious, sniveling PC morons of the last 10 years. That is the modern wor…

> Every argument is ad hominem nowadays.

Careful... http://plover.net/~bonds/adhominem.html

Re: “People simply empty out”

#370

Post by plantain »

VexXtreme wrote: post #130
sliverstorm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of why the "rat race" works/exists. People are always looking up to see who is above them, never down to see how far they've come. "I IPO'd for ten million dollars! Life is awesome!" quickly transitions to "Frank IPO'd for 5x what I did! That's not fair!"

But that's human nature, we're designed to always keep climbing up and striving for more. It is not healthy to constantly compare yourself with people who are worse off. Sure, it induces a sense of gratitude to know that you have clean drinking water and no threat of being killed by a warlord today (unlike many people in Africa, for instance), however if we settled for that, there would never be any incentive to impr…

"Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. But they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late."
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