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Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

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Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#31

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

twoodfin wrote: post #25
graeme wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt Taibbi isn't the author of that article. You saw an ad for one of his articles buried in the text of the article. Edit: Well, I was wrong. I realized that on my mobile, I read "By Victor Juhasz", referring to the photo credit.

No, he is the author. And if nothing else, it provided me with the pleasant knowledge that I think he's a terrible writer even when I agree with him.

Really, I think he's somewhat wonderful. The way he marshals words in the service of outrage, anger and disenchantment with authority is extremely appealing to me, even when I disagree with him.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#32

Post by nawitus »

ethanbond wrote: post #12
gxs wrote: post #7

Amazing, perspective is everything. I don't deny that college kids are being taken advantage of. Graduating from a small liberal arts college in South Dakota that no one's ever heard of with a degree is Culture Studies and 80k in debt really is a rip off. The flipside of this coin however is someone like me. My parents are immigrants and I was the first to go to school. To my parents, the fact that someone would be e…

I agree. Loans aren't at the root of the problem, but they're also a bad solution. An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. The only solution worse than that? Blaming students. This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. I'm not going to be the one that screws an entire generation out of a worthwhile education in the name of "loans are ba…

> An even worse solution is getting rid of loans.

A good solution is making loans optional like in Scandinavia. Universities are pretty much free, but some students take loans to get by.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#33

Post by MisterWebz »

gxs wrote: post #7

Amazing, perspective is everything. I don't deny that college kids are being taken advantage of. Graduating from a small liberal arts college in South Dakota that no one's ever heard of with a degree is Culture Studies and 80k in debt really is a rip off. The flipside of this coin however is someone like me. My parents are immigrants and I was the first to go to school. To my parents, the fact that someone would be e…

In some countries, you don't even have the OPTION to take out a loan to go to school.

That's because in some countries you won't be paying more than 5k to go to a decent college.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#35

Post by Zimahl »

gte910h wrote: post #21
Zimahl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenting as an Oregonian, it isn't going to solve any problems it just makes college more accessible, allowing students to kick the can down the road. College is still too expensive and costs have risen for no reason. I went to state college in Washington (Washington State, go Cougs) and when I started there tuition was $1300 (semester system, so $2600 per year). My middle-class parents were easily able to cover my…

I'm fine if costs stay where they are....as long as there is a mandatory forgiveness 15 or so years past graduation. Then lenders will discriminate based on major (as it should be) and not fund english degrees and other such things that we have a glut of.

The problem is costs won't stay where they are, they just keep climbing for no reason. The quality is only marginally better, if that. It is one thing if the states are covering less tuition for their constituents that would make the cost rise make sense, but out-of-state tuition has almost doubled since I started college back in the mid-90s.

Here's the problem. My alma mater is Washington State. They want to be a 'world class' college and it's a nice goal, but that's not the point of the state system. World class costs way too much money for little benefit. I'm not saying aim low, but be realistic. The job of a state institution is to provide an affordable opportunity for those who might not have otherwise. It's not Harvard or Stanford but it's accessible and it allows for upward mobility.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#36

Post by ethanbond »

twoodfin wrote: post #24
ethanbond wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Loans aren't at the root of the problem, but they're also a bad solution. An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. The only solution worse than that? Blaming students. This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. I'm not going to be the one that screws an entire generation out of a worthwhile education in the name of "loans are ba…

This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. Loans for the sake of loans seem to be the key problem here: If students who intended to get a "degree in bullshit" at a gussied up diploma mill faced difficulty finding a loan for that purpose, they might reevaluate their decision. And besides: Who's seriously advocating for the total elimination of s…

And who is going to decide what's a "degree in bullshit" and what's a "gussied up diploma mill?" What metrics would they use?

Libertarians tend to like the idea. But short of that, it's difficult to vote for reform that lands between perpetuate-the-problem and screw-an-entire-generation.

We can fix the problem of paying for education, but that solution isn't going to be found anywhere near the student loan debate.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#37

Post by TallGuyShort »

jacquesm wrote: post #11

One big problem I have with college loans is that people that sign up for it are not adequately informed on the long term consequences of their action. Since this is a loan for education one would expect that before being allowed to sign for the loan there would be a test that you'd have to pass to be able to apply. That would get rid of a lot of people that find out the hard way that they've borrowed themselves into…

I learnt how compound interest worked long before high school. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but the notion that people who have applied to and been accepted to a university wouldn't be capable of making simple cost/benefit decisions or understand the consequences of a loan should be laughable. The fact that so many people are apparently approaching graduating without yet having thought about the consequences is a sign that our education system sucks long before student loans become an issue.

edit: I recently discussed this with a friend who just received an MBA with an emphasis on finance. He was complaining that the interest rates on his loans had gone up every year, even before he started graduate school. It's disgusting that he could be accepted to a graduate school to study finance and didn't see that one coming.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#38

Post by AnIrishDuck »

ethanbond wrote: post #12
gxs wrote: post #7

Amazing, perspective is everything. I don't deny that college kids are being taken advantage of. Graduating from a small liberal arts college in South Dakota that no one's ever heard of with a degree is Culture Studies and 80k in debt really is a rip off. The flipside of this coin however is someone like me. My parents are immigrants and I was the first to go to school. To my parents, the fact that someone would be e…

I agree. Loans aren't at the root of the problem, but they're also a bad solution. An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. The only solution worse than that? Blaming students. This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. I'm not going to be the one that screws an entire generation out of a worthwhile education in the name of "loans are ba…

> Loans aren't at the root of the problem

Loans absolutely are at the root of the problem. Not the abstract concept of loaning money, but the current implementation.

The student loans legally allowed today are borderline usary. They provide a convenient way for lenders to sidestep bankruptcy protection. This leaves students with exact same problems society had before bankruptcy: it's far too easy for the unwary to sign their life away to crushing debt. They essentially become an indentured servant for the rest of their life, destined to die in poverty.

These issues are a practically daily occurrence on r/personalfinance [1]. I personally know several people in this situation. Naive kids get too far over their head in debt, and the traditional protections for that situation have been taken away from them.

Maybe it's time to cap total outstanding student debt to some reasonable expectation of when they can be repaid. That's the only way I can imagine tuition levels reverting to a sane level.

1. for a recent example, see http://redd.it/1kavq7

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#39

Post by ethanbond »

nawitus wrote: post #32
ethanbond wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Loans aren't at the root of the problem, but they're also a bad solution. An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. The only solution worse than that? Blaming students. This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. I'm not going to be the one that screws an entire generation out of a worthwhile education in the name of "loans are ba…

> An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. A good solution is making loans optional like in Scandinavia. Universities are pretty much free, but some students take loans to get by.

So you're saying, "A good solution is to lower the price of education."

I agree. I think we all would. But how? Loans are already very optional - that's a nonsolution.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#40

Post by codegeek »

The student loan issue is kinda like the Health Insurance issue in America (strictly an opinion). Prices are driven up because colleges can charge whatever they wish and the students pay for it in the form of loans mostly backed by the Government (STAFFORD etc.). Colleges have no incentive to reduce tuition cost because the money flows either way (student or the govt. ). Remove the option of getting subsidized/backed by the Govt, the colleges will either have to reduce the fee or be at the risk of not getting enrollments and ultimately lose money. They don't want that. No one does. Similarly, remove the middleman i.e health insurance companies, doctors/hospitals can directly charge a patient and voila, a visit to get stitches will not be billed at $1000.
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