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“People simply empty out”

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291–300 of 477 posts

Re: “People simply empty out”

#291
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a way out of the looking-the-part problem. Cultivate an image of an eccentric genius (and work hard to actually have genius level skills) and people will start to focus more on what you can do and less on what you look like you can do . In fact, that's why the tech industry seems to get an exemption -- they're mostly perceived as eccentric geniuses. Also, spend lavishly on the best clothes, eat lavishly, but…

Jesus, you people are delusional! You are not perceived as eccentric geniuses, not by anyone. Never, ever. They might say that to keep you on the treadmill but the the truth is that (especially by VCs) you are perceived as cannon fodder with a personal hygiene problem. You are kept around as long as you are useful and don't bitch too much. The minute that stops you are out on your ear. Welcome to the real world.

Indeedy. The squeaky wheel does not get greased, it gets replaced.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#292

>>You know my old saying, "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors." Some people balk at the idea of "wage slavery," primarily because they think it is so different from the traditional slavery that it should not be called that. But the question is, if you are doing something and the alternative is starvation and death, are you really a free human being? If you think about it for a…

It's a loaded term, though. Regardless of whether you believe African-Americans are still experiencing the negative effects of slavery 150 years after it was abolished. The thing that is so particularly sinister: A: "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the others." B: "You're right, so we should do away with affirmative action." C: "Exactly, it's racist since these days there are plenty o…

the thought political correctness police is coming, sure that helps!

Re: “People simply empty out”

#293
post #98
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he suggested people should work to age 80, but work proportionally less in all the years up to there. At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. A 75 year old man could work as hard as a 25 year old man, but the same amount of work will probably take a greater toll on his health. In a way, seems like his scheme is pretty much geared to make…

And why is the body not capable of doing the same things at 70? Is it because you overworked it earlier on?

Because you don't think as clearly anymore, you can't have as much fun anymore, your sense aren't as good anymore. Shit, you can't go to a club and flirt with 20-something hot chicks, ok? Weed and alcohol aren't much fun anymore. Your idea of fun is actually borin*g and you don't even know it because you have difficulty grasping half the stuff that's going around you. You are just old. In pain. Slow. Afraid. SUCKS!

Re: “People simply empty out”

#294
post #6

$100 are about $650 in todays money [1]. [1]: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100%24+from+1969

No. It is $3323. 1oz gold coin price in USD: 1969 40 2013 1362

The gold "price" prior to 1971 was a pegging set by central banks, only adjusted slightly every couple of years. A "free price-fluctuating world market for gold" as we today know it only exists since the 70s. (Some argue we're still under central bank-managed price pegging, just "smarter" but let's not go there...) Rendering your point pretty useless.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#295
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only way to stop hoarding is abundance.

We live in an age of incredible abundance. Yet hoarding continues, does it not?

This leads to an interesting thought. If IP were free and we had the concept of a Jubilee (all debts forgiven at certain points in time), I think global human suffering would go down a lot.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#296
post #196

Employment is, by definition, exploitation. If the objective of the company is to profit, it has to pay the employee less than the value he generates. The alternative is profiting out of non-internalized costs (e.g., exploiting natural resources).

there are other forms of organization out there - a non-profit, "cooperative" organization could and should be the norm. This form of organization means that everyone in the org is an owner, and is paid according to the work they do. There is no fat cat at the top that don't do work but takes in money. I believe in brazil there is a manufacturing company that is like this - each worker gets a slice of the profit.

Here in Uruguay, we have lots of "cooperatives" (our country has a long socialist story), most work out well, but they come across many of the same problems that faced the old Soviet Union, and you do get "fat cats" at the top regardless of the supposed equality system.

http://uruguayeduca.edu.uy/Userfiles/P0001/File/Cooperativis...

We have:

- Transport cooperatives

- Dairy products cooperative (Conaprole)

- Healthcare cooperatives, which serve most of the population ("Mutualistas", based on Mutualism)

- An Insurance cooperative

- Credit Union cooperatives

- Housing cooperatives (those are the ones that worked out for the worst)

In many cases, they compete with non-cooperatives.

Edit: while they should be equal, even if they get same or slightly better pay, cooperative directors have lots of actual power, which can be turned to money if they so desire (kickbacks, etc...)

Re: “People simply empty out”

#297
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always kind of shake my head at this. On a board with many people making 100k+ per year, who are the "societal overlords" you're referencing. Sure there are people that make much more than that, but anything beyond 80k allows a person to save quite a bit and "quit" the rat race earlier if they like.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plasti…

I think more and more Gen Y people in advanced European countries see owning a car as a failure - you are a fool for wasting money, when transportation can be done cheaply and also often for free. You are basically penalized for owning a car by high taxes, and for those few occassions in a year when you need a car (moving stuff) it's easy enough to rent. Spending your life in traffic jams is just a plain fail.

Having to wear a nice suit is also a failure. I would never consider working anywhere where I have to wear a suit.

Edit: My overarching point being that attitudes are changing. The 'American dream' doesn't really apply anymore, and especially not everywhere.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#298
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right; as I said "these problems are not (or at least very unlikely to be) the result of a direct conspiracy by some elite group." Further: "I don't think history supports that view, and I don't believe people are particularly capable of maintaining such a conspiracy for so long a period of time. It should be clear, however, that the "conspiracy" could itself be an emergent part of the system - a higher order…

You're tilting at windmills. I didn't claim our current system is perfect or uncorrupted (the phrase least worst system clearly points out that our current systems are flawed). I don't think social improvement (however you define that) inevitably leads to some kind of totalitarianism, but I do think people claiming to have all the answers to creating a fairer society have turned out to be tyrannical more often than n…

Sigh. Sorry to be rude, but I'm not sure if you properly read my post - it really wasn't a "diatribe[s] about a shadowy conspiracy of a 1% elite spanning centuries".

I wasn't referring to you when I indicated that some conclude that the system is "as good as uncorrupted and can't be improved", nor was I suggesting that you subscribe to "the idea that any kind of social improvement inevitably leads to some kind of totalitarianism". In both cases I was speaking about the opinions I encounter in this debate more generally.

As to the point you make in your second paragraph; it strikes me that the improvement in living standards is more to do with improvements in technology and political freedom than it is to do with the way our economy is organised. The idea that we owe these improvements to the economic structure is, however, prevalent; sometimes the idea is modified to say that the technological advancement we have enjoyed would have been impossible without the economic system we have.

Both forms of this idea fail to recognise that there have been numerous burst of technological and social advancement that haven't relied upon capitalism (e.g. the Romans, but also basically every civilisation in history), unless of course you broaden the definition of capitalism so much to include almost any commercial system, and both fail to offer evidence that capitalism was causal of, rather than merely temporally correlated with, the improvements in living standards. The negative evidence available, about systems which have historically been anti-correlated with progress (like the ones you mentioned), only covers a narrow range of possibilities, and are difficult to generalise from.

I should note that I'm strongly inclined to believe that there was a causal link between capitalism and the success of the industrial revolution and the things that followed (i.e. it was sufficient), but I am far less convinced that the form of capitalism used, which strongly concentrated power, was necessary, and I think that it is deleterious to broader society.

I, like you, "prefer the gradual, consensual move to socialism we have in Western Europe". This is a sentiment I agree with wholeheartedly, and I find these ideas of conspiracy very boring, but I'm still wary of the notion that we should pretend that no one has an interest in concentrating power and wealth, and maintain the status quo. My reading of history, and the present, is that people do have such interests, and that they use both their power and their wealth to secure their positions. I fail to see why this is particularly controversial, except that it suggests moral culpability for actions that have, for a long time, been lauded.

I can see that you are not arguing to maintain the status quo, but I hope you recognise that the greater social justice in modern capitalism, which is constantly under attack from the right, was fought for over long periods. The rights we enjoy today were not given to us by the benevolence of our leaders.

Sorry for the long post! ;-)

Re: “People simply empty out”

#299
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny you should say this. A friend recently had me interview for his company. He is a great guy, works too much, wakes up in the middle of the nights when he is on call. His boss started off by agreeing that yes, the friend worked too much. He may even have used the word burning out. He then hastened to tell me about his theory in life. Your 20s and 30s are meant to be a time for learning. Apparently, this "le…

My reply to this: anytime I see 50 year old bold fat guy in a Porsche 911 it's depressing. EDIT: should really be pathetic and sad and not depressing, but I think you get my point. Youth and health are so precious that no amount of money compensates ever.

If even that were true! I really don't see my 40s and 50s being better than now. Personally, my biggest weakness is that I am passionate about the technology and getting my hands dirty. If I start getting practice in management, crafting bold powerpoints, dressing up, etc. I think I'd go far in tech in my later days. But I won't because I love getting my hands on code. sigh

Re: “People simply empty out”

#300

I support and understand what he's saying, but I think too many times we set up this false choice between "pursuing our dreams" and "working for the man" There's honor -- and authenticity -- in making choices for your life that involve working in the system. I used to look down on those who worked jobs they hated and would say things like "That's just not for me. I don't know how you can do it." until one day somebod…

My God, could you be any more complacent or condescending? Could you have comprehended the letter less? You are, in your own words, still being a jerk, just a self-righteous one. And no, you didn't understand a single thing he wrote.

Most people have no real choice in their work, except in the technical sense of one shitty job versus another. Most people don't "own their lives", their lives are dictated to them. To dismiss those lives as it being them having made a personal choice (the implication presumably being that they could have chosen to be a VC or a surgeon) is contemptible.

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