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“People simply empty out”

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#191

Post by chii »

wwweston wrote: post #72
mason240 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know just how you think humanity will be able to feed, shelter, and entertain itself if no does anything.

If literally no one did any work, then yes, we'd have trouble with this. However, most industrial societies, things are long past the point where most people would need to work full time in order to feed and shelter their populations -- we now employ a decided minority of the labor force doing those essentials. Apparently instead of reaping a leisure dividend, though, we've decided other things are more important. Pe…

and why would those "minority of people" doing all the work agree to share their fruits with you (who is not working!)?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#192

Post by prostoalex »

lsc wrote: post #174
orofino wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem though - you don't need to buy the BMW or the suburban McMansion. Save that money instead and when you're in your 40 you can tell the boss that he should give you job to a whipper-snapper, you're headed to Thailand. No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social secu…

>No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky. I think that we in the tech industry are... different here. In other industries, there is a /lot/ of pressure to look the part (well, to look an /expensive/ part.) Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car…

"America is essentially about hustling, and that goes back more than 400 years. It’s practically genetic, in the U.S., by now; the programming is so deep, and so much out of conscious awareness, that very few Americans can break free of it. They’re really sleepwalking through life, living out a narrative that is not of their own making, while thinking they are in the driver’s seat. It’s also especially hard to break free of that mesmerization when everyone else is similarly hypnotized. Groupthink is enormously powerful. Even if it occurs to you to stop following the herd, it seems crazy or terrifying to attempt it. This is Sartre’s “bad faith,” the phenomenon whereby a human being adopts false values because of social pressure, and is thus living a charade, an inauthentic life. It’s also what happens to Ivan Illych in the Tolstoy story, where Ivan is dying, and reviews his life during his last three days, and concludes that it was all a waste, because he lived only for social approval."

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/how-americ...

Re: “People simply empty out”

#193

Post by dagw »

greenyoda wrote: post #28
_delirium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

Working until 80 might sound reasonable to a software developer, but if you have a job like a construction worker or a firefighter, you may not be physically capable of doing your job at 80, even part time. So you'd have to switch careers to work into your 80s, which not everyone would be successful at pulling off.

There must be several things you can do with 30 years of firefighting experience that is useful to others without you needing to physically go out an fight fires, especially if you, financially, only need to work one or two days a week.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#195

Post by jacquesm »

tankbot wrote: post #161
vineel wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any specific books you recommend?

Run With the Hunted and Love is a Dog from Hell spring to mind, but for me half the fun of reading him is just jumping in randomly. His life was chaos so it's fitting. If you read enough about "Hank" a picture of who he was will start to materialize. Since he's dead and not able to spend your book sales money on booze and horses, he'd probably be ok with you just reading his stuff online for free[0]. He is also great…

Very pretty, thank you.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#196

Post by chii »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #102

Employment is, by definition, exploitation. If the objective of the company is to profit, it has to pay the employee less than the value he generates. The alternative is profiting out of non-internalized costs (e.g., exploiting natural resources).

there are other forms of organization out there - a non-profit, "cooperative" organization could and should be the norm. This form of organization means that everyone in the org is an owner, and is paid according to the work they do. There is no fat cat at the top that don't do work but takes in money. I believe in brazil there is a manufacturing company that is like this - each worker gets a slice of the profit.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#197

Post by rhdoenges »

tankbot wrote: post #129

Can I just say that I love Charles Bukowski? If you've never read him go buy his books now. There's so much humanity in there. Some will think he's a downer or depressing, but I think he's genius. His life reminds me of this quote by Hokusai: When I was 50 I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the the age of 70 is not worth bothering with. At 75 I'll have learned something of the pattern o…

I can't stomach the guy. He was an abusive drunk who thought it was funny to kick women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8KJiay6EI0

Re: “People simply empty out”

#198

Post by scotty79 »

ahomescu1 wrote: post #127
wffurr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. Simply amazing you can think that given the distribution of wealth in the world. The only reason the vast majority of us have to work to eat is because the vast majority of the proceeds from our labor go to benefit a tiny global elite. For quite a long time now, the technical means have existed to provide the basics of life to every human being on the planet at a modest cost. And yet we don't – instead…

Also, keep in mind that money is not wealth. This "global elite" is not hoarding food, fuel or other basic necessities, they only have the money. New money can be printed, old money can be destroyed, new currencies can be created. The only real wealth is goods and services created/rendered by working people, and this "global elite" doesn't really have a strong grip on that.

The other thing rich people hoard is real estate. This increases price of one of most basic necessities. This also degrades the real estate resource because more people have to rent, and people who live in their own house tend to care about its state more than people who rent and people who own house just to rent it away.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#199

Post by pyoung »

decadentcactus wrote: post #143
pyoung wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently taking a sabbatical of sorts after slaving away and saving up for 5 years. I threw most of my savings into index funds, and then set up automatic withdrawals to my savings account. This forces me to try and live within a certain budget. If all goes well (i.e. market stays healthy), I will have only spent down a small amount of my savings by the time I return to the labor force. In the mean time, I have…

How much savings did you have? I'm considering doing the same at some point, though my quick glance at index funds makes it seem like I'd get basically nothing. What sort of budget does this afford you?

Vangaurd low cost index funds. Supposedly, you can count on 8-10% annual return. I also did/do some occasional stock picking which has gotten good results (but I wouldn't count on that being sustainable). I probably spend about 20k a year, and have savings in the low 6 digits.

I waited until I had 5-10x my annual expenses, but obviously you can do it with less. My main recommendation would to be have at least an extra 6 months of living expenses beyond what you need (so if you are taking a year off, have at least 1.5 yrs of living expenses) in case it takes a while to find work again. The main advantage of saving more than that is you can use the returns from your investments to offset some of your costs a bit.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#200

Post by [deleted] »

rphlx wrote: post #163
jessedhillon wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It never seems to never occur to some people that emergent behavior, arising from the (mis)alignment of incentives in a complex system, can give rise to behavior so bizarre and purpose-directed that it all seems deliberate -- as yet is nonetheless emergent. The whole system is a fractal, all the way to the top -- there are many uber-wealthy folks whose experiences are subjectively as miserable as Bukowski's w…

Our current global economic system was intentionally designed by (and for) a very small Elite, over roughly 4 centuries. Those at the very top are certainly not typical victims [1] of the system they carefully create; indeed, history shows they constantly and incrementally revise it to their benefit. [1] They're only victims if they go too far, trigger civil unrest, and wind up on the losing side of the guillotine. "…

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