Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“People simply empty out”

lettersofnote.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 477 posts

Re: “People simply empty out”

#171

Post by dsbmac »

dnautics wrote: post #20

I don't happen to believe the wage system is slavery (I do happen to believe we have a modern slavery system, but that's another story) "They never pay the slaves enough so they can get free, just enough so they can stay alive and come back to work." But then why don't the slaves leave? Unlike in the past, nobody is holding a gun to their head. One possibility, probably popular among entrepreneurial types, is the sla…

Django unchained briefly visited that idea when Leonardo pondered why don't the slaves revolt or leave? The slave has nowhere to go.

Wage slavery, the term, was coined when industrial jobs were coming on to the scene in the north and there was still slavery in the south. Groups of laborers in these new factories soon went on protest. They self-described their situation as being similar to slave work/living standards but with a wage. Basically what we today would call inhumane.

This sentiment never diminished but instead was overwhelmed by the dominance of industrialized work in this format. Their protest fell on deaf ears because now all the jobs offered were like that and unions decided to fight for better working conditions instead of the system at large. Which leads us to today.

It's hypocritical when employees lambaste labor movements but will gladly partake the fruits of better wages and working standards.

It seem human nature will put up with a lot of things. An anthropological account i read: The anthropologist visited some area around Tibet. The system in place there required newly married women upon marriage to leave their husbands and work for the lord of the area, often as a concubine. After a year or so she would leave but not to return to her husband but instead go to a work camp where she would serve as a comfort girl. After that she returned.

The obviously shocked anthropologist asked why did people put up with this arrangement? It seems the reply was a "that's the way it was" sentiment.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#172

Post by eshvk »

vineel wrote: post #150
tankbot wrote: post #129

Can I just say that I love Charles Bukowski? If you've never read him go buy his books now. There's so much humanity in there. Some will think he's a downer or depressing, but I think he's genius. His life reminds me of this quote by Hokusai: When I was 50 I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the the age of 70 is not worth bothering with. At 75 I'll have learned something of the pattern o…

Are there any specific books you recommend?

Women was an excellent book. A complicated book that works on many subtle levels. On one level, it is in essence, the T.V. series Californication. On another level, it is the story of a man finding himself through his partners. Ham on Rye was also another excellent story of Bukowski's origins. All of his books were part memoirs, now. Post Office, tracks his early years working in the Post Office. Day in, day out. Checking in, his life being eaten away. The prose isn't great. However, it is rather amusing to read it today. Especially in a city where you hear people working 90 hour weeks; 90 hour weeks in tiny red-bull fueled offices. For what, for someone's glory.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#173

Post by eshvk »

VexXtreme wrote: post #82
_delirium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

> Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! And this exact kind of thinking is what the societal overlords want yo…

It is funny you should say this. A friend recently had me interview for his company. He is a great guy, works too much, wakes up in the middle of the nights when he is on call. His boss started off by agreeing that yes, the friend worked too much. He may even have used the word burning out. He then hastened to tell me about his theory in life. Your 20s and 30s are meant to be a time for learning. Apparently, this "learning" involves working on these problems day in and day out. So the burning out was a good thing. Then, in your 40s, you start earning money. I could be a tech-lead or a manager, he said. Then, in my fifties, I could enjoy. He did this. He was happy with it, he said.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#174

Post by lsc »

orofino wrote: post #148
homosaur wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plasti…

Here's the problem though - you don't need to buy the BMW or the suburban McMansion. Save that money instead and when you're in your 40 you can tell the boss that he should give you job to a whipper-snapper, you're headed to Thailand. No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social secu…

>No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky.

I think that we in the tech industry are... different here. In other industries, there is a /lot/ of pressure to look the part (well, to look an /expensive/ part.) Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car worth less than thirty grand? Hell, I've met a few sales folks and managers who wear watches they claim are worth at least half that.

Engineering is a little different in that we can dress down, and nobody is going to seriously give us shit for driving a piece of junk car. One can reasonably be a six-figure computer nerd and be a frugal person. A six figure salesman would be... well, he would be breaking a lot of expectations if he lived frugally.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#175

Post by rphlx »

dsbmac wrote: post #153
enraged_camel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Life cannot be sustained without effort. In this day and age, sustaining life should not require 40+ hours of work per week. As a society we are producing a ridiculous amount of surplus, and then conditioning ourselves to consume that surplus so that we can produce even more. Where does it end?

It ends in global financial collapse. Then rises again! The US will gradually fade from dominance as every other leader before it. I wouldn't be surprised if we're witnessing it's decline right now. I don't see how it gets out of the major systemic mess it is in. Detroit, Louisiana, etc. is how it begins. A first world country bit by bit reverting to third-world status. Until some place has a successful anarchic-type…

Corruption and regulation are fast friends which usually encourage each other.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#176

Post by [deleted] »

rphlx wrote: post #175
dsbmac wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends in global financial collapse. Then rises again! The US will gradually fade from dominance as every other leader before it. I wouldn't be surprised if we're witnessing it's decline right now. I don't see how it gets out of the major systemic mess it is in. Detroit, Louisiana, etc. is how it begins. A first world country bit by bit reverting to third-world status. Until some place has a successful anarchic-type…

Corruption and regulation are fast friends which usually encourage each other.

[deleted]

Re: “People simply empty out”

#177

Post by rphlx »

enoch_r wrote: post #87
johnrob wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a lot more. 4.31% per year is likely what the US government reports. They traditionally under report inflation (although to a greater degree over the past 20 years). The bundle of goods used to measure inflation does not include housing and energy, which have been the primary sources of rising living costs (not to mention medicine, which I only just considered).

First, the CPI absolutely does include housing, energy, and medicine[1]. Second, it's incredibly hard to accurately measure such a nebulous concept as inflation (because there's no such thing as a "general price level"), but it's pretty bold to definitively state that the CPI understates inflation. Measuring inflation is hard . We can buy an iPhone 5 for half what we paid for the first one in 2007--how do we quantify…

OK, I'll bite. Name 5 products or services that have significantly improved in quality at constant cost, or declined in USD price at constant quality, over the past 10 years (excl. high-volume offshored consumer electronics, which of course I'll grant you).

[I tried pretty hard myself and all I came up with was, possibly, clothing].

Re: “People simply empty out”

#178

Post by TheLegace »

decadentcactus wrote: post #143
pyoung wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently taking a sabbatical of sorts after slaving away and saving up for 5 years. I threw most of my savings into index funds, and then set up automatic withdrawals to my savings account. This forces me to try and live within a certain budget. If all goes well (i.e. market stays healthy), I will have only spent down a small amount of my savings by the time I return to the labor force. In the mean time, I have…

How much savings did you have? I'm considering doing the same at some point, though my quick glance at index funds makes it seem like I'd get basically nothing. What sort of budget does this afford you?

Same with me as well, I am doing some work in Forex, but that is proving incredibly difficult. As that is live intraday training.

I usually work a contract job for my University but I get my money in lump sums, so I was thinking I could put a sum into some sort of index fund, or even a currency fund.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#179

Post by rphlx »

sliverstorm wrote: post #108
baddox wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the distinction between "perceived value" and just normal value?

Maybe poor choice in words, but the point is no one asset can be counted on to directly monitor inflation. Using the gold example- suppose industrial demand for gold to fuel the semiconductor industry tripled the price of gold compared to 1969. Now suppose the price of milk, bread, gasoline, electricity, water, clothing, and alcohol only doubled in price compared to 1969. If inflation is a measure of your purchasing…

If you use Milton Friedman's (IMO, most-correct) definition of inflation as 'expansion of the currency supply' then Gold has actually tracked USD inflation extremely well, and the rate is far higher than the CPI.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#180

Post by nazgulnarsil »

rphlx wrote: post #177
enoch_r wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the CPI absolutely does include housing, energy, and medicine[1]. Second, it's incredibly hard to accurately measure such a nebulous concept as inflation (because there's no such thing as a "general price level"), but it's pretty bold to definitively state that the CPI understates inflation. Measuring inflation is hard . We can buy an iPhone 5 for half what we paid for the first one in 2007--how do we quantify…

OK, I'll bite. Name 5 products or services that have significantly improved in quality at constant cost, or declined in USD price at constant quality, over the past 10 years (excl. high-volume offshored consumer electronics, which of course I'll grant you). [I tried pretty hard myself and all I came up with was, possibly, clothing].

Cars. TCO has dropped a lot due to maintenance costs dropping. Mean household size has also declined steadily for 3 decades. We choose to have more space and nicer things rather than work less.
Post reply on HN