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“People simply empty out”

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#141

Post by Houshalter »

enraged_camel wrote: post #32

>>You know my old saying, "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors." Some people balk at the idea of "wage slavery," primarily because they think it is so different from the traditional slavery that it should not be called that. But the question is, if you are doing something and the alternative is starvation and death, are you really a free human being? If you think about it for a…

Yes but that definition makes the word so useless to include the vast majority of people that have ever lived through all of history.

It also an attempt to bring a lot of connotations which simply aren't true. People don't use the word because they want to explain something the reader doesn't already know, they want to make the connotations that come with the word.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#142

Post by metricman »

VexXtreme wrote: post #130
sliverstorm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of why the "rat race" works/exists. People are always looking up to see who is above them, never down to see how far they've come. "I IPO'd for ten million dollars! Life is awesome!" quickly transitions to "Frank IPO'd for 5x what I did! That's not fair!"

But that's human nature, we're designed to always keep climbing up and striving for more. It is not healthy to constantly compare yourself with people who are worse off. Sure, it induces a sense of gratitude to know that you have clean drinking water and no threat of being killed by a warlord today (unlike many people in Africa, for instance), however if we settled for that, there would never be any incentive to impr…

Come on, human nature? Designed to keep striving? I've heard this referenced as "keeping up with the Joneses" when it's about matching consumption to your neighbors'.

I never thought "keeping up with the Joneses" is part of my human nature. Or even my culture.

The 'societal overlords' from previous posts you have now ascribed to human nature (??) are really 'society', perhaps influenced by some ultra-elite cadre, sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses

Re: “People simply empty out”

#143

Post by decadentcactus »

pyoung wrote: post #74
djim wrote: post #55

i sold my startup about 3 months ago, and immediately starting looking for another job. after a couple months, a couple interesting but-not-exciting offers, and one interview process that ended in me not getting an offer, i finally took a worthy vacation. while on a boat in the caribbean, a couple things occurred to me: (1) i really don't need to work for the next ~10 years (2) in that time, i will likely stumble on…

I am currently taking a sabbatical of sorts after slaving away and saving up for 5 years. I threw most of my savings into index funds, and then set up automatic withdrawals to my savings account. This forces me to try and live within a certain budget. If all goes well (i.e. market stays healthy), I will have only spent down a small amount of my savings by the time I return to the labor force. In the mean time, I have…

How much savings did you have? I'm considering doing the same at some point, though my quick glance at index funds makes it seem like I'd get basically nothing. What sort of budget does this afford you?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#144

Post by homosaur »

orofino wrote: post #96
VexXtreme wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! And this exact kind of thinking is what the societal overlords want yo…

I always kind of shake my head at this. On a board with many people making 100k+ per year, who are the "societal overlords" you're referencing. Sure there are people that make much more than that, but anything beyond 80k allows a person to save quite a bit and "quit" the rat race earlier if they like.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plastic.

I don't make 100K but I did recently have what you might call a religious epiphany about my job, my finances, and freedom. Luckily for me, I have little debt and actually like my job a lot so I'm not the hole some folks are, God bless them all.

I just hope most of us aren't Bukowski's age when we realize we were building useless bullshit for useless people in order to buy useless plastic garbage. I know some of us are doing important work, but many of us are not.

Jeez, guys, we get one chance at this. Most people are destined to live anonymous lives so at the very least try to enjoy it.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#145

Post by homosaur »

VexXtreme wrote: post #130
sliverstorm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of why the "rat race" works/exists. People are always looking up to see who is above them, never down to see how far they've come. "I IPO'd for ten million dollars! Life is awesome!" quickly transitions to "Frank IPO'd for 5x what I did! That's not fair!"

But that's human nature, we're designed to always keep climbing up and striving for more. It is not healthy to constantly compare yourself with people who are worse off. Sure, it induces a sense of gratitude to know that you have clean drinking water and no threat of being killed by a warlord today (unlike many people in Africa, for instance), however if we settled for that, there would never be any incentive to impr…

Being "poorer" does not necessarily mean you are worse off. There's a big difference between living in a mud puddle with AIDS and building a modest life outside of the rat race. Most of us living in those middle class suburbs are also burdening ourselves with payments for garbage we don't really need. We are burdening ourselves with larger houses to put all that garbage in.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#146

Post by nnoitra »

blackhole wrote: post #5

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

I will totally regret not robbing a bank.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#147

Post by homosaur »

greenyoda wrote: post #28
_delirium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

Working until 80 might sound reasonable to a software developer, but if you have a job like a construction worker or a firefighter, you may not be physically capable of doing your job at 80, even part time. So you'd have to switch careers to work into your 80s, which not everyone would be successful at pulling off.

Assuming robots haven't taken over software development

Re: “People simply empty out”

#148

Post by orofino »

homosaur wrote: post #144
orofino wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always kind of shake my head at this. On a board with many people making 100k+ per year, who are the "societal overlords" you're referencing. Sure there are people that make much more than that, but anything beyond 80k allows a person to save quite a bit and "quit" the rat race earlier if they like.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plasti…

Here's the problem though - you don't need to buy the BMW or the suburban McMansion. Save that money instead and when you're in your 40 you can tell the boss that he should give you job to a whipper-snapper, you're headed to Thailand.

No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#149

Post by homosaur »

mattm wrote: post #98
dictum wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he suggested people should work to age 80, but work proportionally less in all the years up to there. At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. A 75 year old man could work as hard as a 25 year old man, but the same amount of work will probably take a greater toll on his health. In a way, seems like his scheme is pretty much geared to make…

And why is the body not capable of doing the same things at 70? Is it because you overworked it earlier on?

Unless you're mining coal, no. It's normally because you ate shit and had a high stress life and pursued sedentary activities and/or alcohol to unwind. If you take care of your body, it rarely breaks down at age 70. Age 90, then I'll give you a pass on being old.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#150

Post by vineel »

tankbot wrote: post #129

Can I just say that I love Charles Bukowski? If you've never read him go buy his books now. There's so much humanity in there. Some will think he's a downer or depressing, but I think he's genius. His life reminds me of this quote by Hokusai: When I was 50 I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the the age of 70 is not worth bothering with. At 75 I'll have learned something of the pattern o…

Are there any specific books you recommend?
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