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“People simply empty out”

lettersofnote.com

31–40 of 477 posts

Re: “People simply empty out”

#31

I don't happen to believe the wage system is slavery (I do happen to believe we have a modern slavery system, but that's another story) "They never pay the slaves enough so they can get free, just enough so they can stay alive and come back to work." But then why don't the slaves leave? Unlike in the past, nobody is holding a gun to their head. One possibility, probably popular among entrepreneurial types, is the sla…

I think it's more a metaphorical "leave", as in "leave the rat race". Most people know they can leave their job, but leaving a chosen career path is a lot harder, especially for a less educated person, and particularly for blue collar workers.

What are they supposed to do? Quit without savings and try to change careers? (That's the feeling, anyways. Not sure what the answer is.)

Re: “People simply empty out”

#32
>>You know my old saying, "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors."

Some people balk at the idea of "wage slavery," primarily because they think it is so different from the traditional slavery that it should not be called that.

But the question is, if you are doing something and the alternative is starvation and death, are you really a free human being? If you think about it for a while, the answer becomes clear: you are not free. Sure, you have the freedom to switch from one slave-owner to another, but at no point in the process do you have real freedom.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#33
I'm not sure the alternative is any better as a startup founder/employee. You're putting in greater amounts of hours, blood, sweat, and tears for less money in a lot of cases. Sometimes it pays off, oftentimes it doesn't. Bear in mind I speak as a corporate wage-slave whose company just announced layoffs after a "record quarter". The answer must be to win the lottery, maybe I should start playing...

Re: “People simply empty out”

#34

Today, too many people have jobs to support their lifestyles, not their lives. People end up working to continue making monthly payments on houses larger than they need, cars fancier than they need, and they won't be able to fully enjoy those things because they're always working 9-5. Today, we are a lot further along than we were 50 years ago. People aren't working in factories to put bread on the table, people are…

People buy things they can't afford, with money that they don't have, to impress people that they don't like I realized I could live off of $25000/yr and maintain a modestly comfortable lifestyle at the same time. I am on track to retire before I am 40. Anyone can do it. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-...

>>Anyone can do it.

Correction: anyone who graduates without debt and starts their careers making good money can do it.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#35
post #6

$100 are about $650 in todays money [1]. [1]: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100%24+from+1969

No. It is $3323. 1oz gold coin price in USD: 1969 40 2013 1362

Incorrect, it is worth approx $0.

Data General NOVA: 1969 $8000 2013 ~$0

$100 * ($0 / $8000) = $0

Re: “People simply empty out”

#36

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

"I wish I worked more" - said no one ever on their death bed.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

Working until 80 might sound reasonable to a software developer, but if you have a job like a construction worker or a firefighter, you may not be physically capable of doing your job at 80, even part time. So you'd have to switch careers to work into your 80s, which not everyone would be successful at pulling off.

I agree that's an open question. Whether a large proportion of people could work in some job up to age 80 (possibly after changing jobs) is definitely an important part of whether it would produce a plausible system.

It doesn't have to be the same job, or to be gap-free, though. If you have a strong retraining/welfare system to cover the gaps, as Denmark has, it's not as big a deal if someone needs to take a year or two off to change jobs. If you can't do your job anymore at some point for health reasons, there is a generous system for disability leave. And, a common unemployment insurance system (a-kasse) covers being unemployed for up to two years, with up to ~$36k/yr salary and retraining / job-finding assistance. As a last resort, there's a floor of ~$22k/yr welfare that anyone can get if they have no other source of income, with no time limits. That's comparable to the low end of U.S. Social Security, so at least nobody would really end up with no income.

The wager is that enough people would be productive post-65 to have a significant overall effect.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#38

>>You know my old saying, "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors." Some people balk at the idea of "wage slavery," primarily because they think it is so different from the traditional slavery that it should not be called that. But the question is, if you are doing something and the alternative is starvation and death, are you really a free human being? If you think about it for a…

The difference, to me, is that the lack of freedom you describe is simply a part of the human condition (food and shelter require work, which has been true as long as life has existed) as opposed to what you call "traditional slavery" which is man-made.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People aren't working in factories to put bread on the table, people are working in offices to pay for their next new car or big screen TV. People are still working in factories to put bread on their tables. There is a huge amount of poverty in the world. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty

You're right, but I'm referring to the United States. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

I still don't see the rosy picture you're painting.

edit: Poverty in the US is hovering at the same rate since the 60's from what I can tell, while absolute numbers obviously are rising. So.. what am I missing? Something like People aren't working in factories to put bread on the table, people are working in offices to pay for their next new car or big screen TV. just sounds nuts in the face of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

In the later half the of twentieth century, other advanced economies in Europe and Asia began to overtake the U.S. in terms of reducing hunger among their own populations. By 2011, a survey found that among 20 economies recognized as advanced by the International Monetary Fund and for which comparative rankings for food security were available, the U.S. was joint worst. [..] In comparison to other advanced economies, the U.S. had high levels of hunger even during the first few years of the 21st century, due in part to greater inequality and relatively less spending on welfare.

Maybe I'm dealing with this?

In the 1980s and 90s, advocates of small government were largely successful in de-politicizing hunger, making it hard to launch effective efforts to address the root causes, such as changing government policy to reduce poverty among low earners.

and I can only say, if only getting rid of poverty was as easy as ignoring the poor, or downvoting a post instead of responding to it. Corporate profits are soaring, people for the most part are still struggling, and they even seem to have lost their voice. So now we're free to just dream? Why actually make progress when you can just imagine it?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#40

I feel like too many people get sucked into the idea of furthering their career, to the point that they forget to further their own life. What is the point of existence if we never get around to experiencing it? "It's not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed, it is the things we do not." - Randy Pausch

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

>he suggested people should work to age 80, but work proportionally less in all the years up to there.

At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. A 75 year old man could work as hard as a 25 year old man, but the same amount of work will probably take a greater toll on his health.

In a way, seems like his scheme is pretty much geared to make people dread reaching old age, and a reduction in pension payments would come from all the people committing suicide after facing the realization that as their bodies become more tired and less resilient, they will have to work harder.

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