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Hyperloop

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Re: Hyperloop

#891

Post by vannevar »

mncolinlee wrote: post #877
lmg643 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point that big government provoked the advancement of the hyperloop idea - counterintuitive idea, and clearly yes. but any idea like this will need government cooperation. The real test of big government will be how they respond to the hyperloop. magic response: "of course we may be wrong, we'll look into this immediately." and then they decide to build it. likely answer: praise, perhaps even an evaluatio…

Having run for state office three times in Minnesota, I can respond to some of this. Politicians aren't all afraid to take risks, especially when they believe a particular policy they like will live on and be remembered. Our former governor Jesse Ventura overcame incredible resistance and media scorn to get our first light rail line built. Almost all casual observers thought major health care reform was impossible in…

Though I'm not sure you intended it, this is an excellent summary of why the US doesn't have a decent mass transit system. Even if you get past the formidable political opposition to any public transit system, you must contend with a coalition of that opposition plus an assortment of interests that want a different system, possibly because it looks better on paper (hey, Hyperloop!) but more commonly because it benefits them financially. So in the end, no system is built at all. If the high speed rail project is scrapped, it won't be in favor of Hyperloop. It will be in favor of doing nothing.

Re: Hyperloop

#892

Post by anigbrowl »

saalweachter wrote: post #890
anigbrowl wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the mass transit within the cities on that coast is shit. As someone who uses only mass transit, I think that's untrue.

I was going to make a flippant comment about "Congratulations on living in San Francisco!", but hilariously, there's a better chance you live in Los Angeles (lower ridership percentage, but significantly higher population). Even in Oklahoma City, where only ~1% of people commute via mass transit, there are still thousands of people who can live happily without a car because mass transit serves them fine. That does no…

I live in Oakland, have lived in San Francisco for a long time, frequently work in LA, and have lived in London, Amsterdam and Barcelona as well, so I feel I've had exposure to a good variety of transit systems in order to form my opinion.

Re: Hyperloop

#893

Post by greiskul »

mattermill wrote: post #847
tinco wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Gates has more important things to spend his money on than moving rich americans from somewhere in America to somewhere else in America.

What about a $40 round trip ticket implies that those of us in LA County or the Bay Area are rich?

The 40 dollars. That is a huge amount of money is many parts of the world. Specially for the type of people Bill Gates philanthropic work is aimed at.

Re: Hyperloop

#894

Post by FrojoS »

jarek wrote: post #639
waterlesscloud wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common to amortize R&D costs over future expected sales.

So who will be the first to offer a signed contract to build the SF-LA line for $6,000,000,000.00? Maybe A16Z will be interested in providing venture funding.

As others have pointed out, 6bn is about the cost of the Bay Bridge extension or, if you prefer, six Instagrams or other retarded "tech" startups.

This is not aimed at you, but when I started reading Hacker News I was amazed how excited, interesting and smart people were on this site. But now Im starting to get tired of this 'valley think'. Greetings from Switzerland where mind blowing infrastructure projects are still happening. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel

Re: Hyperloop

#895

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lennel wrote: post #759
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how many people really need to travel between the Bay Area and SoCal? Right now it is about 12 million trips a year. That would increase if the link is cheaper, but to what economic gain? These two areas are strongly connected economically, not like NYC and DC are.

NY Boston however accounts for a lot of Acela traffic (based on my experience).

Ya, those areas are strongly connected. There was a typo in my above reply, I meant to say that SF/LA are not as strongly connected economically as NYC/Boston/Philly/DC.

Re: Hyperloop

#896

Post by mjn »

hef19898 wrote: post #804
bathat wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France probably doesn't tie both its rail agency's hands behind its back with pointless environmental impact reports (the sole purpose of which seems to be to generate extra revenue for civil engineering contractors) and then let NIMBYs sue because this or that insignificant detail wasn't included.

France is an interessting case. If I remember well, the have a group of people (project managers, politians, you name it) preparing the case well before any actual construction work starts. Yet, as afar as I remember, there actually were some controversies when they started a TGV line somewhere in northern France. But it still works pretty well, one benefit of being highly centralized. Another factor at play is that…

I think one aspect is just that the decision is made definitively at some point, in advance. People have different opinions: impact on historic buildings, noise, environment, other things. This is all debated up front, and then the legislature either approves it, or it doesn't. But when it was approved, it was approved. You can't sue in court to stop the plan on environmental grounds or noise grounds or something else, once the legislature has decided to go ahead with it, because the authorizing legislation supersedes any contrary legislation.

But the U.S. delegates decision-making to agencies and courts in a way that this doesn't happen. California might take input for a long time before deciding on its plan, but its final plan is still not final. Anyone can sue it for many different reasons. Maybe it violates the federal Clean Air Act, maybe it violates property rights, maybe something else. The decision is never final until every challenge to an agency or court is decided, which massively adds to uncertainty and costs.

Re: Hyperloop

#897

Post by MAGZine »

jarek wrote: post #637
MAGZine wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except test tracks have been built or are being built, and it's sure to become a reality sometime or another.

So we're all rooting for hyperloop to have test tracks in 2015, demo tracks in 2020, very limited real-life deployment in 2040, and sure to become inter-city mainstream reality sometime later? Some think we'll be on Mars by then ;)

I somehow think that if people wanted it, it would come faster than 2040. We're working towards fusion power faster than that!

Re: Hyperloop

#898

Post by javert »

kaizendc wrote: post #878
javert wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an absolutely disgusting attitude. True innovators carry all of humanity on their backs, and give massively to all of humanity, present and future. The fact that they get some monetary compensation doesn't entitle you to not be grateful and to not recognize their heroism. It does not entitle you to imply, as you have, that they deserve the same level of praise as any person who is paid for any work whatsoever…

No wo(man) is an island. Musk would have a hard time innovating if he had to build his own house, grow his own food, knit his own clothes, etc. etc... We all rely on each other to provide our basic standards of living. Without our basic needs being satisfied, we don't have a platform from which to focus on innovation. Yes, innovation is great, but don't act like they are the entire backbone of humanity.

Elon Musk is probably at least millions of times more productive than the average human.

If you were to calculate the sum of gains and losses between Elon Musk and humanity, it would balance out that Elon Musk is overwhelmingly the creditor, and humanity is overwhelmingly the debtor.

As with the great-grandparent of this comment, your comment is a massive moral equivocation.

Re: Hyperloop

#899

Post by jarek »

FrojoS wrote: post #894
jarek wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who will be the first to offer a signed contract to build the SF-LA line for $6,000,000,000.00? Maybe A16Z will be interested in providing venture funding.

As others have pointed out, 6bn is about the cost of the Bay Bridge extension or, if you prefer, six Instagrams or other retarded "tech" startups. This is not aimed at you, but when I started reading Hacker News I was amazed how excited, interesting and smart people were on this site. But now Im starting to get tired of this 'valley think'. Greetings from Switzerland where mind blowing infrastructure projects are sti…

In case it wasn't clear, I was voicing my doubt that any company would actually build such a line for $6B claimed by Musk, not an opinion that it was unduly expensive.

Re: Hyperloop

#900

Post by jarek »

MAGZine wrote: post #897
jarek wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're all rooting for hyperloop to have test tracks in 2015, demo tracks in 2020, very limited real-life deployment in 2040, and sure to become inter-city mainstream reality sometime later? Some think we'll be on Mars by then ;)

I somehow think that if people wanted it, it would come faster than 2040. We're working towards fusion power faster than that!

If people wanting it made technology feasible, we'd have had flying cars in 1990
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