Bottle light inventor proud to be poor • Hacker News Board

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#71

Post by casca » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

rickdale wrote: post #15

The title of this article bothers me since the article focuses much more on the bottle and light and rather than how poor and proud Alfredo Moser is. Regardless, pretty cool exposure of life in the slums, I'd bet there are more 'hacks' as a means of survival that are necessary there, but we wouldn't think twice about. I will say the article is good, just don't like the title.

Interestingly, the link from the BBC News main page under the Most Shared and Most Read tabs has the title as "The light inventor who is poor but proud" which seems far more appropriate than the one on the article.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#72

Post by jcmoscon » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 2:30 PM UTC

throwaway420 wrote: post #38

e3pi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proud to be poor? Not paying taxes into NSA surveillance/military state or any whatever exploitive capitalism as other collared proles. Some people are far too busy than to concern themselves with financial vanity and the distractions that follow it. Teeming masses of slum youth with linux netbooks must be high on the list of Fort Meade's threat matrix.

* You can be proud of opposing the NSA and the MIC and other mechanisms of destruction without volunteering for a life of destitution. * You're free to do whatever you want, but I don't think that embracing poverty is a good solution to the NSA or the MIC. Mass poverty means that the government controls everybody's means of survival (foodstamps, healthcare, etc) which equals total political control. I think that crea…

Excellent answer!

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#73

Post by codex » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 2:33 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #66

throwaway420 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand being proud of a beneficial invention and offering something to people without taking money for it. He's done an amazing good deed and hopefully will be remembered for this. But I don't understand the title of the article because I think taking pride in poverty is a weird position to be taking. The headline might just be catchy click bait.

> But I don't understand the title of the article because I think taking pride in poverty is a weird position to be taking. Weird? It's one of the constant positions on poverty since the dawn of civilization -- from christianity and buddhism (the original, not the watered down California style) to bohemianism, communism and so on. Including the "proud, hardworking people" in most rural communities, etc.

Likely it's a compensation mechanism to protect the ego. I've been both rich and poor, and while extreme wealth is also unnatural, there is little that poverty has to recommend it.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#74

Post by gngeal » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 2:44 PM UTC

The numbers don't make sense to me. "It depends on how strong the sun is but it's more or less 40 to 60 watts." <- I hope that's for the whole roof we see in the picture, not for a single bottle. What's the insolation of a single bottle top anyway? (Unless, of course, they're talking about your grandma's old-fashioned incandescent light bulbs.)

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#75

Post by sophacles » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

gngeal wrote: post #74

The numbers don't make sense to me. "It depends on how strong the sun is but it's more or less 40 to 60 watts." <- I hope that's for the whole roof we see in the picture, not for a single bottle. What's the insolation of a single bottle top anyway? (Unless, of course, they're talking about your grandma's old-fashioned incandescent light bulbs.)

Well, at the surface, when the rays are hitting perpendicular to the planet, it's 1000 W/m^2 (approx).

Of course the real problem is they are measuring the light in terms of incandescent bulb power draw, rather than something useful like lumens or candela, but due to a century of ubiquitous light bulbs, we've been rating light in the wrong units.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#76

Post by gyom » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 4:30 PM UTC

eksith wrote: post #39

gyom wrote: post #37

The problem with the article is that they're obfuscating the fact that this does not produce light. It's basically a smarter way to poke a hole through your ceiling. It's not a device that converts energy into light.

Rather odd thing to say. How it works is explained in the second paragraph after the intro : "So how does it work? Simple refraction of sunlight, explains Moser, as he fills an empty two-litre plastic bottle." I agree that it does involve poking a hole through the ceiling, but the thing's simplicity belies its utility and what may seem "obvious" after the fact doesn't make it any less significant an invention. https:…

I saw that sentence with the word "refraction" and I wasn't sure if it was the whole idea or if refraction was just one part of a clever design to enhance the effects of another artificial light source.

That's why I felt it was misleading. Looking at the article again, though, it's probably clearer than I originally thought it was.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#77

Post by xanderstrike » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 4:35 PM UTC

My dad built a treehouse with exactly this with liter water bottles in ~1994, he said he saw it when he was growing up with glass bottles. I hate to be a spoil sport, but this is hardly a new idea.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#78

Post by coldtea » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 5:40 PM UTC

codex wrote: post #73

coldtea wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't understand the title of the article because I think taking pride in poverty is a weird position to be taking. Weird? It's one of the constant positions on poverty since the dawn of civilization -- from christianity and buddhism (the original, not the watered down California style) to bohemianism, communism and so on. Including the "proud, hardworking people" in most rural communities, etc.

Likely it's a compensation mechanism to protect the ego. I've been both rich and poor, and while extreme wealth is also unnatural, there is little that poverty has to recommend it.

I don't think it's a compensation mechanism. For some maybe.

But a lot of people had tons of money and got rid of them to be poor(er) and win some kind of freedom or normalcy that was important for them. Some did it directly, some did it through drugs, alcohol and extreme spending that showed that they didn't value the money at all.

I know a couple of people from rich families that ended up as austere monks, living in a monastery in my country. And people like Witgenstein (huge fortune, left it behind), Burroughs (of the "adding machine" family), etc.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#79

Post by eksith » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

D9u wrote: post #58

eksith wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I've been interested in going off-grid for a while, but never could find the appropriate time (or the location, since land here is pricey as well). If you do find those pictures, I'd love to see how you've setup everything. There's a big demand these days for off-grid and sustainable living so if you happen to document your experiences, a la blog or similar, that could be invaluable for a lot of folks. Not…

I'm honored to share my experiences here. While the initial expenses related to going off-grid may be exorbitant (to some) the resulting savings more than makes up for it, and you can always incrementally add to your system as finances permit. I have had damage due to electrical storm, but placing a TV antenna higher than the panels has worked for the past 10 years or so. Another concern is equipment replacement, wit…

Thanks a bunch!

Yes, I thought the first things to go would have been excess luxury. An annual budget for maintenance, I think, actually wouldn't be too hard to setup if the rest of your expenses are proportionally lowered.

I've been told that metal roofs are a better fit with solar panels, but that's an additional cost. Hopefully that will pay off in longevity.

I hadn't thought about expanding incrementally. I can see how that will significantly make things easier as upfront costs won't be as far out. Also, efficiencies are better with newer models so you actually end up paying somewhat less per watt.

Frugality is something I've had some (involuntary) experience with in the past. ;) I don't think it'll be too hard to return to some of that. Also it's better for all of us in the end.

Re: Bottle light inventor proud to be poor

#80

Post by zaccus » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #78

codex wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely it's a compensation mechanism to protect the ego. I've been both rich and poor, and while extreme wealth is also unnatural, there is little that poverty has to recommend it.

I don't think it's a compensation mechanism. For some maybe. But a lot of people had tons of money and got rid of them to be poor(er) and win some kind of freedom or normalcy that was important for them. Some did it directly, some did it through drugs, alcohol and extreme spending that showed that they didn't value the money at all. I know a couple of people from rich families that ended up as austere monks, living i…

Sorry, but wealthy people choosing to live austerely for spiritual reasons is not the same thing as poverty. Poverty is spending every waking hour worrying about money for rent and food, having no access to a doctor when you're sick, etc. There is nothing virtuous or meaningful about it, and it's certainly not something to be proud of.