The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam • Hacker News Board

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#41

Post by the_ed » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:04 AM UTC

megfitz wrote: post #38

the_ed wrote: post #33

Even though it seems like your setup is not really good, (as others have remarked here) I think the central question you posed here still holds up to some extend: "where do they get their traffic from?". When getting involved with aff-networks I have noticed that there are quite a lot of 'low quality' (of course depending on your needs) networks around that basically lure people into visiting your site, other than re…

But I think that's the point - the traffic is effective the merchant's own. They're not driving spammy visitors or buying false visits; they're just redirecting the customers who would have already been browsing the site back to the checkout funnel - they'd just get the benefit of the affiliate tracking code added to the order.

In this case: yes. (Or for the most part.)

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#42

Post by rorrr2 » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:05 AM UTC

joosters wrote: post #40

If you visit the site, put stuff in your cart and get all the way to the checkout page, you must know by that point who sent them to your site. If the customer then goes away and googles for voucher codes, it shouldn't change the source. When (if?) they return, you should know they are the same person, from the same original source. How did the affiliates manage to steal these customers? It seems to me like your refe…

My guess is they check the cookie after the checkout, which is somewhat reasonable. This is an edge case that became a major case due to this scam.

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#43

Post by dangrossman » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:08 AM UTC

joosters wrote: post #40

If you visit the site, put stuff in your cart and get all the way to the checkout page, you must know by that point who sent them to your site. If the customer then goes away and googles for voucher codes, it shouldn't change the source. When (if?) they return, you should know they are the same person, from the same original source. How did the affiliates manage to steal these customers? It seems to me like your refe…

Affiliate networks require you put their code on the "thank you" page shown after checkout. Conditionally removing that code would be seen as an attempt to scam the network and get out of paying commissions owed. What you're proposing doesn't work anyway -- you don't know that they didn't come through an affiliate link a week prior; the cookie isn't on your domain, but you owe a commission for that referral.

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#44

Post by endymi0n » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:12 AM UTC

Welcome to the wonderful world of brandbidding - and yes, you facilitated the scam by using coupon codes (hint: by 2013, they do you a major UX disservice for the reasons everyone is mentioning). It's been out there for a decade, but networks still do a horrible job at explaining the situation for you, as they're cashing in as well. Affiliate marketing is no more of a "free lunch" than all the other marketing methods out there. You got to either know your shit to protect yourself from fraud or pay someone to do it for you. Either way, you need to actively manage your publishers and watch out for the metrics you presented for all of the channels you're employing. If you're handing out free money without looking after what you are getting out of it, be sure that there will be someone to claim it. Wisely used and managed, affiliate marketing can definitely be another valuable tool in your marketing chain, but the total costs will be comparable to anything else.

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#45

Post by dangrossman » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:13 AM UTC

cgman wrote: post #22

It's called cookie stuffing. Your company should have done your research before doing affiliate marketing and taken steps to prevent this kind of fraud.

Cookie stuffing is something different; that usually refers to outright trickery like embedding affiliate links in images or malware. This is just affiliates taking advantage of the fact that if you put a coupon code box on a checkout form, people will search for coupons right before checking out. Run a coupon site, put a "click here to activate coupon" link on it, and suddenly you're being paid for sales the merchant was already going to get.

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#46

Post by endymi0n » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:18 AM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #43

joosters wrote: post #40

If you visit the site, put stuff in your cart and get all the way to the checkout page, you must know by that point who sent them to your site. If the customer then goes away and googles for voucher codes, it shouldn't change the source. When (if?) they return, you should know they are the same person, from the same original source. How did the affiliates manage to steal these customers? It seems to me like your refe…

Affiliate networks require you put their code on the "thank you" page shown after checkout. Conditionally removing that code would be seen as an attempt to scam the network and get out of paying commissions owed. What you're proposing doesn't work anyway -- you don't know that they didn't come through an affiliate link a week prior; the cookie isn't on your domain, but you owe a commission for that referral.

Correct. There's a "blind" tracking pixel at the checkout page that will usually catch the sale in a "last cookie wins" fashion. So on top of the advertisers, anyone actually facilitating the sale by advertising is ripped off by the coupon sites. It's a major pain for the industry - the only surefire way to protect yourself is to get rid of drop either affiliate marketing or coupon codes.

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#47

Post by adrow » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:20 AM UTC

makomk wrote: post #37

psycr wrote: post #3

So it sounds like there's an opportunity for someone here. If you read to the end of the article, you'll note that the actual scam is in spinning up discount code sites. We need a Rapgenius for online discount codes. Right now, it's full of scummy, crappy sites (just like lyric sites), but could be easily improved with a simple interface, minimal advertising, and collaboratively sourced content.

I know http://www.hotukdeals.com/ have branched out into discount codes at some point, but they're obviously UK-only I'm not sure how many people use that section of the site.

Worth mentioning that HUKD were referred to the IAB over their voucher code practices.

http://www.affiliate.me.uk/affiliate-news/online-deal-site-i...

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#48

Post by chmars » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:35 AM UTC

Maxious wrote: post #16

rwhitman wrote: post #5

No shit. This is why you create a page on your site called "Discount Codes". You put in an email signup and offer a small discount coupon. You get the email address in case they abandon and you can re-market to them, and the discount so that they won't abandon, because they found what they were looking for and will complete the transaction. Google will rank you high because its your page and you catch at least some o…

Which is exactly what Kogan did and it's now the #2 result when you search for Kogan coupons www.kogan.com/au/kogan-discount-codes/‎ > Regular customers of Kogan know that our products are ALWAYS discounted. Very rarely do we release a Kogan Discount Code or a Kogan Discount Coupon The #1 result? A scammy looking site but don't worry because "59 people have used this today!" (unsuccessfully of course)

http://www.kogan.com/au/kogan-discount-codes/ doesn't exist (anymore?):

'Sorry, we can't find the page you're looking for'

Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/LSvh9Av.jpg

You get, however, annoying pop-up window if you access this URL …

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#49

Post by martin-adams » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 8:38 AM UTC

"So basically, the affiliates are claiming commission on a sale that was going to happen anyway"

You have someone in your checkout process. Why on earth would you give them a reason to leave that process and go search for a discount code if you know they won't find any? Assuming they will come back doesn't feel right. What if their search for a discount code didn't prove there wasn't one, but did prove a competitor was going to be a) cheaper, b) a better service, c) offering discount codes, or they got distracted by cat videos on YouTube.

And maybe I'm naive here, but since adding affiliate marketing, if the revenue was going to be guaranteed anyway, wouldn't there be a drop in $200,000 from the regular revenue?

Re: The big, ugly affiliate marketing scam

#50

Post by mnml_ » Tue, Aug 13, 2013, 9:03 AM UTC

Of course a lot of people are trying to leech revenues in Affiliate marketing, that why affiliate need to be reviewed and monitored. It's not a scam you just accepted to do business with people without checking where their traffic comes from.