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Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

forbes.com

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Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#71

Post by betterunix »

flyinglizard wrote: post #22
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

"Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner"

Really? When last I checked the overwhelming majority of criminals were using paper money. This is probably because the overwhelming majority of people in general use paper money and because criminals have to pay rent like anyone else.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#72

Post by betterunix »

lutusp wrote: post #40
coinman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, bitcoin itself is not really a currency, or money, it's more like an idea for exchanging messages. Bitcoin is really a decentralized messaging system which relies on cryptography and proof-of-work to maintain integrity. Should exchanging messages in the form of "I owe you x amount" over a p2p network be regulated or be made illegal? However, The fact that it's used as a form of currency is just an interpret…

> In a way, bitcoin itself is not really a currency, or money, it's more like an idea for exchanging messages. It's a way to convey messages, but the messages represent value in the same way that paper money does. If bitcoins can be exchanged for goods and services, then they represent the value of those goods and services, just like paper money. An electronic message describing a transaction involving dollars, or eu…

"the messages represent value in the same way that paper money does."

I doubt that, since paper money is guaranteed by law to at least be accepted by the government for tax payments. There are no guarantees at all with Bitcoin.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#73

Post by ganeumann »

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course the government cares about money, and of course it wants to control the money supply. And, as a consequence, the USA will never allow any major currency inside its borders other than the US dollar.

The history of the United States is littered with the fights over who gets to determine what is money and how much of it there is: Hamilton's fight with Jefferson and Madison over the need for a central bank, Jackson during his run for the Presidency denouncing the central bank--and this becoming the main issue in the campaign, the popularity of Williams Jenning Bryan (cf. the famous "Cross of Gold" speech), etc. etc. all the way up to the horrible stagflation of the 1970s ("Whip Inflation Now!") and the recession caused by the ultimately successful efforts by Fed Chairman Paul Volcker's to end it. It is reasonable to believe--and certainly most people in the US government believe--that control of The Money is control of the economy.

Why would any successful government ever voluntarily give up that control?

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#75

Post by threeseed »

bluedino wrote: post #67
e12e wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Holding an amount of currency isn't taxable It is in Norway - any cash or deposits in excess of 750.000 NOK (around 125.000 USD or so) is taxed in addtion to interest being taxed as income. Now, cash isn't easily detectable, so it is a very easy asset to hide -- but while possible, that would be tax evasion and is illegal.

Taxed at what percent? Ludicrous.

Why ? Seems like a great tax to me. The people who are most likely to be hoarding large sums of cash are the type of people who you want to be taxing.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#76

Post by betterunix »

icebraining wrote: post #48
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also disastrous for the planet - bitcoin's carbon footprint is growing, trading our planet for ... imaginary points. This has got to stop.

Either Bitcoin is just a bubble, and it'll stop, or it's actually useful, and not just "imaginary points". Either way, it'll probably be decided way before it has any real impact on the global energy consumption.

http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf

http://www.links.org/files/distributed-currency.pdf

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#77

Post by justinhj »

sgk284 wrote: post #69
bluedino wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxed at what percent? Ludicrous.

I agree, the thought of merely holding money being a taxable event seems weird (speaking as an American). That said, it's a great way to ensure that people don't hoard cash and instead spend it or invest it (in theory, keeping the economy moving).

Well if you put it into a bank account the money will actually be being invested by the bank anyway.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#78

Post by nwzpaperman »

betterunix wrote: post #71
flyinglizard wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

"Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner" Really? When last I checked the overwhelming majority of criminals were using paper money. This is probably because the overwhelming majority of people in general use paper money and because crimi…

Who did you check with? Jack Bauer? LOL

The biggest criminal enterprise is "outside money" vs. "inside money" and the scale is orders of magnitude larger than the folks peddling narcotics or paying for hookers.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#79

Post by rayiner »

revelation wrote: post #49
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this should be unpopular, except among people who see the Internet as a new Wild West. The basic advantage of Bitcoin, that its controlled by an algorithm rather than a central bank, exists whether or not financial regulations apply to Bitcoin. Does it destroy the utility of a crypto currency for exchanges and processors to be required to detect e.g. money laundering?

It's the wild west, except not a single person ever died from it. It's a communications network . I'm all for treating it as the wild-west, self regulating thing it is. Applying this logic, mail is the old Wild West.

Nobody has died in the Internet, but money has been stolen and commerce has been interfered with, and that was one of the major drivers behind the taming of the Wild West. Stage coach robberies and train holdups.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#80

Post by pmorici »

runarb wrote: post #5

Looks like the price of Bitcoins just made a good jump at https://www.mtgox.com/ . Are speculants thinking that if the us government are geting involved it validates Bitcoin further? Edit: Screenshot of the jump: http://i.imgur.com/G5Dk7Nh.png

mtgox isn't an accurate measure of the real price of BitCoin right now. Since all USD withdrawals are effectively shut down the USD price on Mt. Gox is artificially high right now.
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