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Hyperloop

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Re: Hyperloop

#551

Post by jarek »

rthomas6 wrote: post #356
skore wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but the only thing you really need is to find a company that is willing to build this while chipping in some of the R&D cost. I don't think such a company would be hard to find because if they get this done, they are now the only vendor of a highly desirable technology. Pretty sure they'll be able to get back that early investment... and then some. (And remember - Musk contrasts $6b to what he estim…

Very good point. Another possibility is some forward-thinking government paying for the initial R&D effort to have one of these built in their state/country.

France might be interested.

Re: Hyperloop

#552

Post by ricardobeat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #484
spikels wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think there would be more passengers on LA-SF versus SaoPaolo-Rio: Greater populations, shorter distances and lower costs ($17 vs 68 billion). Brazilians may be poorer today but they are catching up fast. Sure there will be private contractors but is there really any private interest in building and/or operating high speed rail in CA? Perhaps Hyperloop will change things but so far it has been govern…

> Not sure why you think there would be more passengers on LA-SF versus SaoPaolo-Rio More potential passengers in the latter, more potential passenger revenue in the former. > Brazilians may be poorer today but they are catching up fast. Per capita GDP in Brazil is less than 1/3 of that in California, and is increasing at about 1.7%/annum (2.7% GDP growth, 0.9% population growth); assuming no growth in California GDP…

Those are country averages. Go look up living costs in Rio/Sao Paulo, you're in for a surprise. Living in Europe sounds reall y attractive right now.

Re: Hyperloop

#554

Post by egypturnash »

dnautics wrote: post #436
jfb wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that to really force the issue, you'd need to be talking an order of magnitude difference in cost. For $20 r/t, ears would perk up -- even people who aren't making a $1/yr salary could conceivably afford that. But $120?

you speak as though it needs to be run as a charity to be a game changer. I only mention that price point because that is just underneath the cost of flying, and that's how economics works. The operator will likely want to make as much profit as it can, while still sucking customers away from the airports. In the beginning, the operator will likely charge MORE than the airplanes, because the customer will be liable t…

The total price of flying may be higher than you think. Don't forget to include: * transporting you to and from the airport * getting to the airport ~1h before your flight * flight time of ~1:30 vs :30 on the Hyperloop

If the Hyperloop works as Musk imagines, then it'll be more like hopping on the subway: go to the station in the middle of town, wait maybe 10min at most, ride, get off in the middle of town.

On the other hand I sure don't wanna be crammed in that recliner looking at a ceiling five inches away from my feet for a half hour. Room to stand up and stretch please.

Re: Hyperloop

#555

Post by danielweber »

iamjustin wrote: post #507
javert wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk should do what the Germans did with the TR0x series of maglev vehicles Musk has already given more than enough for the world and done more than enough. Somebody should do it, but we should not expect him to do it.

We shouldn't expect him to demonstrate his idea?

He says he won't do it himself for a long time. He's busy with other things.

Re: Hyperloop

#556

Post by dragonwriter »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #522
9999 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jerry Brown's political career is coming to an end, so there are no long term political consequences for him. He's also traditionally been an opponent of government waste. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he would choose an unproven but promising technology over our existing useless high speed rail project. The assembly is another matter. If you think hyperloop is interesting, write and call your state…

>He's also traditionally been an opponent of government waste. he is in bed with gov employees unions (the unions are primary driving force behind 200-300K/year gov employees pensions ( http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/pensions ) with retirement age of 55, CA is something like $200B deep in that hole), and especially with prison guard union - of course huge prison population resulting from "toughness on crime" may…

> the unions are primary driving force behind 200-300K/year gov employees pensions

200-300K/year (and higher) pensions are pretty much entirely executives who weren't union members, it has nothing to do with unions.

e.g., the #1 highest: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/27/opinion/la-oe-cole-v...

Re: Hyperloop

#557

Post by mbreese »

dnautics wrote: post #436
jfb wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that to really force the issue, you'd need to be talking an order of magnitude difference in cost. For $20 r/t, ears would perk up -- even people who aren't making a $1/yr salary could conceivably afford that. But $120?

you speak as though it needs to be run as a charity to be a game changer. I only mention that price point because that is just underneath the cost of flying, and that's how economics works. The operator will likely want to make as much profit as it can, while still sucking customers away from the airports. In the beginning, the operator will likely charge MORE than the airplanes, because the customer will be liable t…

Don't forget about time... if this is faster than air travel, that alone could be wroth something. The fact that the cost might be equivalent to air-travel and be significantly faster would be the game-changer.

If I could take one of these from SF to LA in a weekend to take my kids to Disneyland, that would be awesome. As it is now, that's a multi-hour process on each side of the trip. Reducing that to 30min (+ some logistics time) would be wonderful. Especially if they can reduce the amount of time required at the terminals.

Re: Hyperloop

#558

Post by newman314 »

ngoldbaum wrote: post #446
clebio wrote: post #84

> 4.5.6. Human Related Incidents Hyperloop would feature the same high level of security used at airports. However, the regular departure of Hyperloop capsules would result in a steadier and faster flow of passengers through security screening compared to airports. Ugh. That only seems feasible if back-scatter scanners are the only option (but would you still have to take your belt off and put all metal in a little b…

The TSA phased out all the X-ray backscatter machines due to radiation concerns. All the scanners at airports use millimeter wave radar now. Still the same privacy concerns, but no ionizing radiation and thus no possible health concerns.

WRONG.

Such machines are still in use and besides, neither machine machine has provably been better than plain old metal detectors.

http://tsastatus.net/

Re: Hyperloop

#559

Post by shabble »

Balgair wrote: post #413
HCIdivision17 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, a 1/1000 atmosphere vacuum system IS a really leaky machine :) Anecdotally, the machine I used to work on would gleefully chew on that for hours idling while we scrambled to find the hiss on the system. It made an awesome sound when it ground into the atmospheric pressure on initial pumpdown, but at about 1/100 atmo it got bored (mere minutes), and without additional high speed stages the mechanical pumps woul…

I used to work with a system of about 1m^3, 2 little mechanical pumps would get you to 10E-6 atm or so. A turbo pump got you down to 10E-9 or there abouts. The door on the thing was about 2.5 feet in diameter, with a big ol' O-ring that would get twisted and tangled all the time (we broke it once, gorilla glue worked just fine to fix it). I also second the great sound they made. It was like 2 very angry horses going…

I imagine you might be able to locate flaws with a custom capsule along the lines of a pipeline pig[1]. It would be exceptionally hard to actually fix it from the inside whilst travelling, so you either need to do it from the outside (which requires site access and elevation gear), or bypass/shut down the tube and fix internally.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging#Intelligent_pigging

Re: Hyperloop

#560

Post by Aloisius »

aresant wrote: post #32

"In the case of the Hyperloop, Musk started focusing on public transportation after he grew disenchanted with the plans for California’s high-speed rail system." And who says that big government stifles entrepreneurial innovation? If ALL Musk does with the Hyperloop announcement is shed more light on the potential debacle that is to be our $70b+ high-speed rail in California, we owe him a debt of gratitude. PS - Dire…

If ALL Musk does with the Hyperloop announcement is shed more light on the potential debacle that is to be our $70b+ high-speed rail in California, we owe him a debt of gratitude.

Really? Because it looks like this is an attempt to derail CA HSR using a proposal for an experimental technology that offers a fraction of what CA HSR does, but is potentially faster.

CA HSR replaces/upgrades two metropolitan rail systems (Caltrain/Metrolink) in addition to connecting SF (as opposed to Oakland!) and LA, requires no R&D, is supposed to handle significantly greater ridership, has detailed cost estimates which include things like take into account electrification costs (because it does get cloudy), support facilities (because there is maintenance of these cars), administrative buildings (because someone has to run the system), bypassing/rebuilding overpasses (which are all over I-5) that are in the way and grading land.

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