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Consciousness is worth thinking about

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Re: Consciousness is worth thinking about

#81

Post by Tichy »

mistercow wrote: post #77
Tichy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the difficulty with that? If I read Wikipedia right qualia basically just means "subjective impressions"? Alright then, compute around for a while on your Arduino, and you get some subjective impressions. For example you could run some simulation that is known to exhibit randomness (like some cellular automatons) and then just pick some state of that. I think this just boils down to the old and tired argu…

The question is not whether computers can have qualia, the question is whether qualia are real. The argument goes that if your Arduino is doing the kind of "computing around" necessary to have subjective impressions, then it is experiencing qualia, and it is in some sense conscious (although not, of course, if philosophical zombies are possible).

Well then qualia is just an artificial definition for something that separates me from you. Since they can't be measured I can always claim "you have no qualia" and treat you like a machine.

Re: Consciousness is worth thinking about

#82

Post by guard-of-terra »

colinm wrote: post #80
guard-of-terra wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "cognitive ladder"? Where does it come from? How many steps does it have? Are we the last one?

Probably an evolved gradation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test#Reactions_of_other_...

I can imagine a race of aliens rejecting human consciousness on the basis of them not passing Smell Mirror Test.

Let's suppose dogs will qualify which will humiliatingly put humans pretty low on the ladder.

Re: Consciousness is worth thinking about

#83

Post by omarchowdhury »

Tichy wrote: post #78
_xhok wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that consciousness is just an illusion created by reacting atoms makes sense from a third-person perspective. It does sound inconceivable that a zombie could be the exact same as a "conscious" person atomically but simply lack a so-called consciousness. If we're talking about a person Bob, sure, all his thoughts are just atomic reactions. But if that's the case, why does the first-person point of view exist? Y…

It's really easy to make a computer say "I".

sigh

Re: Consciousness is worth thinking about

#84

Post by mistercow »

Tichy wrote: post #81
mistercow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not whether computers can have qualia, the question is whether qualia are real. The argument goes that if your Arduino is doing the kind of "computing around" necessary to have subjective impressions, then it is experiencing qualia, and it is in some sense conscious (although not, of course, if philosophical zombies are possible).

Well then qualia is just an artificial definition for something that separates me from you. Since they can't be measured I can always claim "you have no qualia" and treat you like a machine.

I see no reason to assume that qualia cannot be measured, in principle.

Re: Consciousness is worth thinking about

#85

Post by _xhok »

Tichy wrote: post #78
_xhok wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that consciousness is just an illusion created by reacting atoms makes sense from a third-person perspective. It does sound inconceivable that a zombie could be the exact same as a "conscious" person atomically but simply lack a so-called consciousness. If we're talking about a person Bob, sure, all his thoughts are just atomic reactions. But if that's the case, why does the first-person point of view exist? Y…

It's really easy to make a computer say "I".

Yes, as it is for a person in the third person. Are you essentially a complex computer? If so, why do you experience I? Why do "you" exist? Why is there not simply a Tichy in the universe acting on its own accord?
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