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The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

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31–40 of 72 posts

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#31

Nelson's remarks exemplify a disturbing trend amongst technologists, and especially those trying to reform education: Misidentifying sub-par educational experiences and areas of studies as "the liberal arts," and then attributing insufficient outcomes to the liberal arts themselves. If he went to Wharton Business school for undergrad, he does not have a liberal-arts education. History and literature are liberal arts,…

Nelson doesn't lament that his mind wasn't adequately "cultivated" but that he wasn't taught some basic skills that he quickly, but probably painfully, acquired on the job and which presumably he found critical in his career. This isn't a question of "mental development" but of having useful things pointed out so that you don't have to suffer whatever damage accrues from not knowing them.

I suppose we're splitting hairs here about what he's aiming for, but consider his comments, first, about what he learned on the job:

>"My first six months, what did the consulting firm teach me? They didn't teach me the basics of how they do business. They taught me how to think. I didn't know how to check my work. I didn't think about order of magnitude.

and then his goals for Minerva:

>"We want to teach you how to think," Mr. Nelson says. A course on "multimodal communications" works on practical writing and debating skills. A "formal systems class" goes over "everything from logic to advanced stats, Big Data, to formal reasoning, to behavioral econ."

Both these comments suggest that he's looking to improve the core critical thinking skills of his students. Indeed, he explicitly says as much. Thinking, reading, writing...these are historically fundamental goals of education.

They are not, however, merely "useful things" which can be pointed out. You cannot simply sit down and "learn" how to read/write/think, anymore than you be can taught a foreign language without actually speaking or writing it, or programming without coding.

They are "basic" in the sense that they form a foundation for other skills. What he seems to be aiming for is not "basic" in the sense that you use, which seems to cover tasks like "how to perform this financial function" or "how to use this technology." (But maybe that's not the sense you're using "basic in).

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#32
How are you going to develop good professors if you only engage them as temps?

That's one of the key things that separates a great university from a teaching college. Investments in the long-term careers of research professors. Teaching is just one of their responsibilities; they also research and publish. Same for their grad students. That takes subsidies that come in part out of undergrad tuition.

So sure, if you cut that out you're going to have cheaper tuition. But if this model were actually adopted on a wide scale, you'd also dry up the supply of great professors.

As an exceptional case it might work, but only by exploiting the investments of other institutions. Very "silicon valley libertarian" in that respect.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#33
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of great institutions lies not merely in education, but in bringing great people together. Simply attracting already smart people (or determined and otherwise talented people) is a value in and of itself.

We have those and they're generally free. We call them "social clubs" and "mixers". Heck, Mensa is basically a social club for smart folk.

well, yeah, but in a college, you're not just brought together to be in some sort of self-primping club, but you also do things like "work collaboratively on projects" and "pursue a guided learning track".

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#34
post #4

I'm reminded now of something that Bill Gates said: universities like Harvard or MIT shouldn't be lauded for churning out smart people... who were already smart before they entered Harvard, we should instead be lauding institutions that admit everyday folks from tough backgrounds that then turn them into smart and able people. In that spirit it is strange that the article goes to great pains to emphasize how "elite"…

The value of great institutions lies not merely in education, but in bringing great people together. Simply attracting already smart people (or determined and otherwise talented people) is a value in and of itself.

Robin Hanson and Tyler Cowen have had a lot of interesting discussions on the role and extent of "signalling" in higher education. I think Hanson takes the extreme view that it is mostly signalling, rather than skills (human capital).

Obviously we see that at some level. "He's a college man" doesn't have the cache it did in 1920.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#35
post #27

If I'm a prospective student for this university (I'm not), I'm thinking I'm going to regret being videotaped in all of my classes several years down the line.

It could be worse -- from the 1940s through the 1970s Ivy League and Seven Sisters universities required incoming students to submit to being photographed in the nude, as part of a bizarre experiment in researching human body types. The result was a trove of highly embarrassing photos of people who went on to reach the highest levels of business, government and the arts.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League_nude_posture_photos for more, and http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/up-against-t... for the story of one student who went through this process, Yale graduate and talk show host Dick Cavett.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#36
post #28

This is the first "let's completely overhaul university" idea I've heard that doesn't completely suck. I like the ideas of world travel and reasonable tuition, and doing away with a lot of the useless cruft of a traditional university - Minereva sounds like fun , and if I was in high school right now, I'd be applying. That said, one possible hassle I can see with this plan is that to bootstrap an "elite" reputation,…

I agree with most of your comment, but I disagree that $20k/yr is a "reasonable tuition" for what Minerva's offering.

State schools. They rock. And they're (relatively) cheap. For example, in-state tuition at the University of Texas is about $10k/yr.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#37
> Professors get flexible, short-term contracts, but no tenure.

At a place like MIT or Caltech, almost all the professors are also researchers. Undergraduates have a lot of opportunity to get involved in that research.

What research opportunities will be available for Minerva students?

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#38
> Its most expensive employees, tenured faculty...

Someone has not paid much attention to the past 20-30 years of developments. Faculty salaries are a falling proportion of university spending. The current cost drivers are administration (both size and salaries) and capital outlays. For example, the University of California system spends only 30% of its budget on faculty salaries (that includes non-tenured faculty). And faculty are rarely, with the exception of med schools employing star surgeons, among a university's most highly paid employees. Look at what the top administrators make in comparison.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#39
post #4

I'm reminded now of something that Bill Gates said: universities like Harvard or MIT shouldn't be lauded for churning out smart people... who were already smart before they entered Harvard, we should instead be lauding institutions that admit everyday folks from tough backgrounds that then turn them into smart and able people. In that spirit it is strange that the article goes to great pains to emphasize how "elite"…

>who were already smart

Getting into harvard has very little to do with smarts and has everything to do with the circumstances you were born into.

Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard

#40
post #6

The 'sticker price' comparison is really misleading here. I don't think the Wall Street Journal do anything to correct this. Here's what the article says: > A degree [at Minerva] will cost less than half the average top-end private education, which is now over $50,000 a year At Harvard today, the minority of students pay full price. Over 70% of the undergraduate student body are on scholarship. Notably, if your famil…

Even if "Minerva" was $1/year, the question is one of value . A degree from Harvard at $50k/year is more valuable than a free one from a UC Berkeley Dean's scholarship student (which is probably about the same difficulty to attain), simply due to the perception it engenders from people that matter.

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