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The Massachusetts Software Tax

fastcolabs.com

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Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#91

This is surely one of the most irresponsible pieces of legslation nywhere this decade.

They should create a tax for lawyers. They are far less productive than engineers -- all they do is argue all day and not create anything of value.

Uh, you have a strange view of 1. what the average engineer does all day 2. What the average lawyer does all day

Most lawyers spend time working on client's problems, not "argue all day".

Lawyers bill their time often in 5 minute increments, and only charge for time they are actually doing something.

If the average engineer sat down and tracked what they did every 5 minutes of the day, i think you'd find they are a lot less productive than they think.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#92

Until people realize that all taxes are theft, they're doomed to have new taxes imposed on the most productive of them. It's really a simple test to see whether taxes are theft or not: if there was no way for IRS to find out how much money anyone made, would people still be paying taxes? My guess is that 90% of people who preach about the social contract and helping the poor would keep the money.

If taxes are theft, then your use of roads, police, courts, eating at restaurants approved by health inspectors, and much more -- that's all theft of your own. Sorry, but taxes are not theft in any general way, by any stretch of the imagination.

It takes some seriously deep-seeded, institutionalized indoctrination assaulting your mind through most of your life to believe taxation is not theft.

If you do not pay your tax, violence is threatened and will be brought upon you if you do not comply. This is theft. It does not matter if the thief uses it for altruism. It does not matter if the thief forces roads and other services upon you by outlawing competition.

The fact remains that the initiation or even the threat of violence against an otherwise peaceful person is wrong, and trying to argue otherwise is an indefensible position.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#93
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sort of how I feel about U.S. taxes in general. I paid somewhat lower taxes in the U.S. than Denmark, but it felt like I got a ton less service. Despite paying taxes, there was no public healthcare, even public university charged thousands of dollars in tuition, transit wasn't great, unemployment insurance was relatively poor, public services like libraries were overcrowded, housing assistance had a 10-year wa…

I would prefer to pay for services I use then to have the money stolen from me by force while people pretend it is moral because it is called "taxes"

Tax is paying for services you use, which is very moral.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#94

This is insane . Either add a sales tax (fixed %) to all B2B transactions (like UK VAT, which you're exempt from if you're tiny) or just don't. This minefield of regulations about what's taxable and what isn't will just make it much more expensive to sell things, as people pay for lawyers/accountants to figure out what "tax" to add to every outgoing invoice. Since this will decrease consumption, it will reduce other…

Agreed. I run a small business (thankfully not doing software) in Massachusetts. I don't mind collecting sales tax, but when they make it an overhead nightmare it's impossible to figure out. I'm just one person; when your revenues are in the $10k range, hiring someone to figure it out is impossible. If they just charged a fixed rate for everything it would at least not so heavily favor big business over small compani…

I have never heard anyone describe "Autodesk" as "cheap software"

However the "Sell software cheap and then charge for service" is the OPEN SOURCE MODEL, where the software is given FREELY, and if you need professional help you have to pay, that is certainly not the model Autodesk uses.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#95
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer to pay for services I use then to have the money stolen from me by force while people pretend it is moral because it is called "taxes"

Taxes are what you pay to transform the act of killing and eating you into "murder" from what it really is: natural selection.

Ahh, yes, "nature red in tooth and claw" and all that.

Social Darwinism went out of fashion about 60 years ago. In part because its philosophical underpinnings had little to do with Darwin or evolution.

For example, an alternate view is that taxes are part of kin selection, in that those people who pay more taxes end up with a social system which is better at raising successful children who continue that culture and practice.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#96
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sort of how I feel about U.S. taxes in general. I paid somewhat lower taxes in the U.S. than Denmark, but it felt like I got a ton less service. Despite paying taxes, there was no public healthcare, even public university charged thousands of dollars in tuition, transit wasn't great, unemployment insurance was relatively poor, public services like libraries were overcrowded, housing assistance had a 10-year wa…

I would prefer to pay for services I use then to have the money stolen from me by force while people pretend it is moral because it is called "taxes"

OK, you're trolling here, and if I could downvote you for it, I would; but since I can't, let me try to raise the level of discussion:

> I would prefer to pay for services I use

I invite you, sometime, to think about which services you really use, and try to figure out how much it would cost to purchase each of them if you were doing so on your own. Don't forget: police protection, fire protection, military protection, paved roads, functioning traffic signals and signs, groomed parks, trash collection (some places), up to sixteen years of education, enforcement of workplace safety standards, financial protection if you become suddenly disabled, a legal system in which to resolve disputes. I don't know what your specific situation is, but just about everyone benefits from those government services in the U.S., and you personally may benefit from many others. I'm guessing that purchasing the first three alone, as an individual on a private market, would probably outrun the total you pay in taxes.

You could lower the individual costs to you of a lot of these by finding a bunch of other people who also need these services, and pooling your money to buy them together. That's just how democratic government begins.

> have the money stolen from me by force

This is a dishonest characterization of the authority of a democratic government to levy taxes. Yes, if you don't pay taxes you owe, someone might come and take your property, and those people might have weapons or threaten you with imprisonment. But that is a measure of last resort, which will surely only be taken if you fail to respond to a long line of more reasonable measures. It does a great injustice to people who actually live under oppressive regimes to compare the collection of taxes under a democratic government to the kind of arbitrary, might-makes-right authority those people are subject to.

Furthermore, by characterizing taxes as 'stolen' money, you are implying that you somehow have an absolute or natural right to have it. Why do you think that? No matter what you do for work, the amount of money you take home is not the product of your exclusive efforts. It also depends on the protections you get just by living in a society that provides some of the services I listed above. You would take home a lot less if, for example, you couldn't rely on the police and legal system to prevent armed bandits from plundering your place of business whenever they please. You'd also probably be a lot less productive if you had to worry about such things on a daily basis. There's a lot standing behind 'your' money that isn't yours, by any reasonable measure.

> while people pretend it is moral because it is called "taxes".

A democratic government's authority to levy taxes does not derive from the name, nor from the force that it can, in extreme cases, use to collect them. Like the government's other kinds of authority, it derives (most people think) from the consent of the governed. Behind that phrase are some important and difficult questions, to be sure. But you are not helping to answer them by characterizing taxes as 'stolen' and 'immoral'.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#97

Until people realize that all taxes are theft, they're doomed to have new taxes imposed on the most productive of them. It's really a simple test to see whether taxes are theft or not: if there was no way for IRS to find out how much money anyone made, would people still be paying taxes? My guess is that 90% of people who preach about the social contract and helping the poor would keep the money.

What an absurd argument. Of course no one enjoys paying taxes but that doesn't make them theft. My guess is that 90% of children would rather be outside playing than sitting in the classroom, yet still we objectively know that they're better served by learning.

Likewise, people who gripe about taxation fail to recognize that it's an important, though often annoying process. The number of essential government services that you use everyday, even without leaving your house is surprisingly high.

What's more, this concept that we should leave everyone to fend for themselves and should simply ignore those who are less fortunate borders on sociopathy. I, for one, take comfort in knowing that even if everything in my life falls apart, there are some basic social safety nets in place to keep me from starving to death of the streets.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#98

This is insane . Either add a sales tax (fixed %) to all B2B transactions (like UK VAT, which you're exempt from if you're tiny) or just don't. This minefield of regulations about what's taxable and what isn't will just make it much more expensive to sell things, as people pay for lawyers/accountants to figure out what "tax" to add to every outgoing invoice. Since this will decrease consumption, it will reduce other…

MA is actually in the lower third of states both in terms of their income tax rate (5.3%) and sales tax rate(6.25%). They could increase one or both of those by a small amount, raise a ton more money and still be a low-tax state, without getting into crazy crap like this.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#99
I'm trying an extreme version of "skate where the puck is headed, not where it's at" with respect to taxes. In my free time I've started designing a tax system which has the potential to be radically simpler, more fair and automated than the current kinds of systems in place. It's fairly obvious than the existing systems are overly complex, unfair, burdensome compliance-wise, confusing and rife for abuse.

Re: The Massachusetts Software Tax

#100
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State of seller determines the tax rate. In the EU, if you're British and buying from Germany, you pay German, not British, VAT rates - they should copy that. Agreed though, that British VAT isn't as simple as it could be (whole categories exempt, etc.)

That's not true in the EU across the board. If you're buying by mail-order, and the seller is above a certain size (small sellers exempt to reduce the compliance burden), they have to assess VAT based on the shipping address. For example, when I order from Amazon.co.uk to Denmark, Amazon charges me Denmark's VAT rates (which are higher and don't exempt books, alas).

interesting! I was basing my knowledge here on having paid "German VAT" on a smartphone from amazon.de (they had it slightly cheaper and much earlier than anyone in the UK.) Maybe I got confused, but I was sure at the time it was a different %age. Maybe I was above the threshold.
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