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How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

newyorker.com

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Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#31

Post by ewanmcteagle »

black4eternity wrote: post #18
robomartin wrote: post #11

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these…

GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTED AMONG MEN, DERIVING THEIR JUST POWERS FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED The majority do not care, as they believe that they have nothing to hide. They do not realize that this will strike at our very core of being human. Would I be comfortable talking with my friend in person at my home when I know that our XBOX One, Phones, Google Glasses are all 'listening' to us. And something I tell my f…

This quote changes the meaning. It says that to secure inalienable rights, governments are instituted among men and to do that those governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. It is not consent of the governed in the sense of everything should be decided by voting. According to this document government exists to secure basic rights. The people who wrote this were wary of democracy. They certainly didn't believe that it solved the problems of tyranny. Another man once wrote: 'There is no justification for the belief that, so long as power is conferred by democratic procedure, it cannot be arbitrary…it is not the source but the limitation of power which prevents it from being arbitrary.'

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#32

Post by pcrh »

jteiiawer wrote: post #14
pcrh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I followed the citation for "secret jail time". Fortunately, at least for that allegation, it appears to be speculation in another article [1]. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...

There were two links - http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-la...

While I agree that the rights of the prisoner in the case you link to appear to be excessively curtailed , he was not "secretly imprisoned".

Secret imprisonment would be a clear indication of totalitarianism, but doesn't, as far as we know, appear to be happening on US soil.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#33

Post by kaonashi »

robomartin wrote: post #11

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these…

Then realize it was written by a bunch of Aristocratic slave-holding white men, who implicitly meant for the document to apply only to people like themselves.

What the traditionally disenfranchised are thinking is: welcome to the fucking club.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#34

Post by cabalamat »

dobbsbob wrote: post #3
hga wrote: post #2

" If Lavabit lost its appeal to the F.I.S.C.R., and still refused to coöperate, it would run a serious risk of being found in contempt; that’s how most courts punish those who disobey its orders. The FISA court is no different. According to the court’s rules of procedure, a party may be held in contempt for defying its orders. The secret court may consider many punishments—secret fines for each day of noncompliance,…

Secret fines, secret proceedings, secret prison time. I wonder if the charges and evidence against you are also secret and only the court knows not the defendent.

> I wonder if the charges and evidence against you are also secret and only the court knows not the defendent.

I don't know about the USA, but the UK government recently passed a law stating exactly that.

And they want to abolish the Human Rights Act. I can't think why.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#35

Post by vizsladriver »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #26

Completely aside from the main point, but I am curious as to why the New Yorker chose to use umlauts for all of the instances of the word: "coöperate." It's a latin word so I wouldn't expect to see that. I wonder if it is a rendering trick or something intentional for tracking.

It's called a diaeresis. It marks the start of a new syllable. They have an article discussing its history at the magazine.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/04/the-cu...

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#36

Post by dx4100 »

kaonashi wrote: post #33
robomartin wrote: post #11

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these…

Then realize it was written by a bunch of Aristocratic slave-holding white men, who implicitly meant for the document to apply only to people like themselves. What the traditionally disenfranchised are thinking is: welcome to the fucking club.

Does that invalidate the arguments put forth in the document? Did it not result in greater freedom for all and eventually lead to massive prosperity?

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#37

Post by AndrewKemendo »

vizsladriver wrote: post #35
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #26

Completely aside from the main point, but I am curious as to why the New Yorker chose to use umlauts for all of the instances of the word: "coöperate." It's a latin word so I wouldn't expect to see that. I wonder if it is a rendering trick or something intentional for tracking.

It's called a diaeresis. It marks the start of a new syllable. They have an article discussing its history at the magazine. http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/04/the-cu...

Ah thanks! Never knew about that.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#38

Post by Eliezer »

pcrh wrote: post #32
jteiiawer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were two links - http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-la...

While I agree that the rights of the prisoner in the case you link to appear to be excessively curtailed , he was not "secretly imprisoned". Secret imprisonment would be a clear indication of totalitarianism, but doesn't, as far as we know, appear to be happening on US soil.

For heaven's sake, if Guantanamo isn't a clear indicator to you, I doubt that secret imprisonment, when it comes or when it's proved to you, will be taken as a clear indicator either.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#39

Post by newnewnew »

kaonashi wrote: post #33
robomartin wrote: post #11

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these…

Then realize it was written by a bunch of Aristocratic slave-holding white men, who implicitly meant for the document to apply only to people like themselves. What the traditionally disenfranchised are thinking is: welcome to the fucking club.

How do you ever learn anything from history believing in such tired Marxist bullshit?

2+2=4 even if you are one of those awful people with the misfortune to be born white.

Re: How the Government Killed a Secure E-mail Company

#40

Post by newnewnew »

robomartin wrote: post #11

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these…

We need to realize that the wrong people are not in charge. Rather, the system is broken. If you put new people in charge the system will return to this state and continue its decay. It persists solely because people do not have a credible alternative to the system. People may hate the system, but they hate every other form of government they know more. Are we suppose to institute a monarchy? Americans would never go for it.

We need to offer a competing vision to present-day America, which is an increasingly totalitarian bureaucratic state with some vestigial democratic pageantry.

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