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Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

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Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#51

Post by tarikjn »

mathgladiator wrote: post #36
j2d3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for you, obviously you have no documented chronic health conditions that would exclude you entirely from private insurance. Unfortunately for me, I do, and am considered uninsurable as am individual, leaving only employer sponsored group coverage as a viable option until next year.

The really crazy thing is how hard it is to not to eventually have a chronic health condition given the typical american diet.

I agree, and when making the conscious decision to get a entry-level private insurance, I made the calculation that what I save on a lower price insurance I could use to spend more on healthier food, in addition of me being physically active, and in my 20's, which makes me a lower risk profile and try to take advantage of it. I also realize that as I get older, I will probably need to set more aside for health-related coverage.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#52

Post by [deleted] »

cperciva wrote: post #39
mjn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is taxation actually higher in the Nordic countries for entrepreneurs? If you bootstrap yourself to $100k as a 1-man company in the Valley, the taxes come out to something like: $7,000 CA income tax $14,000 self-employment payroll tax $16,000 federal tax (after deducting eligible portions of the above two) ------- $37,000 (37%) In Copenhagen, it would come out to [1]: $8,000 labor-market contribution (AM-bidrag) $24,…

Interestingly, in British Columbia a self-employed individual earning $100,000 with no deductions pays: $6,721 BC income tax $4,712 CPP (government pension plan payroll tax) $16,844 federal income tax ------- $28,278 (28%) Sounds like Canada is the low-tax paradise so many US entrepreneurs claim to be looking for.

[deleted]

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#53

Post by nawitus »

enra wrote: post #40
nawitus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Finland entrepreneurs are taxed less than many full-time employees. Corporations are taxed at a flat percentage (about 28% of the profits), while income taxes are progressive and up to 50%. In fact, your argument doesn't make much sense. High taxation doesn't logically imply that it's necessarily unrewarding to become an entrepreneur but rewarding to be a full-time employe. You can have high taxes for ent…

> At least in Finland entrepreneurs are taxed less than many full-time employees. It is true in high income levels that you can gain with tax planning, but I wouldn't say many are taxed less. Actually taxes/costs are pretty hurting for many starting entrepreneurs or small businesses. If entrepreneur wants money out of the company (like for rent), she pays the taxes twice. Once as a corporation (28%) and then again as…

>If entrepreneur wants money out of the company (like for rent), she pays the taxes twice. Once as a corporation (28%) and then again as capital gains tax and/or as an income tax (+ all the costs that comes with employing yourself). Rule thumb for starting entrepreneurs that you need to make at least twice the money you want to make as an individual since taxes and costs the other half.

An entrepreuner may be taxed the same way for his/her work as an employee is if he/she wants to. If he pays the income tax, I think that can be reduced from the corporation's profit tax just like any other corporation. There's also tax free possibilities up to 60 000€.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#54

Post by smokey_the_bear »

I recently set up group health insurance for my five person company. Before then we'd all been on individual plans. I felt really awkward making medical decisions for our employees. The HSA high deductible plan was the best option for my husband (co-founder) and myself, but I didn't know if anyone had any medical issues, or when they intended to start families.

Also, we founded our company five years ago, and it was just the two of us for years. One of the things that kept us in California was that we had selected Kaiser health insurance, and it was unclear if we could get pregnancy coverage on another plan in another state.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#55

Post by rayiner »

enra wrote: post #40
nawitus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Finland entrepreneurs are taxed less than many full-time employees. Corporations are taxed at a flat percentage (about 28% of the profits), while income taxes are progressive and up to 50%. In fact, your argument doesn't make much sense. High taxation doesn't logically imply that it's necessarily unrewarding to become an entrepreneur but rewarding to be a full-time employe. You can have high taxes for ent…

> At least in Finland entrepreneurs are taxed less than many full-time employees. It is true in high income levels that you can gain with tax planning, but I wouldn't say many are taxed less. Actually taxes/costs are pretty hurting for many starting entrepreneurs or small businesses. If entrepreneur wants money out of the company (like for rent), she pays the taxes twice. Once as a corporation (28%) and then again as…

I don't see why the entrepreneur wouldn't just pay herself a salary to make rent. That would be deductible from the corporate tax as an expense.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#56

Post by mgkimsal »

mjn wrote: post #35
mgkimsal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems it's a bit of a shell game... $500/month with some prescription coverage is a guaranteed $6k/year. $200/month without prescription coverage is a guaranteed $2400/year - $3600 savings. If you know you'll have more than $3600/year in prescription costs, then this plan doesn't necessarily make sense, but unless you know you'll have that much in costs, it doesn't matter. I was looking for something where I self-…

My worry is coverage of prescription drugs above $10k/yr. I'm perfectly fine paying for normal prescription drugs, but when I was looking for high-deductible insurance, all the cheaper plans explicitly said "no prescription drug coverage", even above the high deductible, which I didn't feel comfortable with. To me the idea of the high-deductible plans was that I cover regular costs in return for coverage in the event…

Maybe mine's different - any medical cost over the deductible is covered - prescriptions or hospital visit or whatever??

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#57

Post by jaibot »

zanny wrote: post #41
jaibot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may become easier to reform healthcare if/when people see that PPACA doesn't Ruin Everything Forever.

The kind of sentiment that breeds that ignorant opinion is propegated by those that don't want to see single payer because it hurts their profits. The health insurance / for profit hospital / big pharma lobbies are aburdly massive, and like many (most nowadays) industries, they abuse their wealth to exploit faulty political process to see what they want instituted brought into law and to keep advances that invalidate…

If you have a plan to fix the entire American political system, I will happily listen. I just spent 2.5 years working tech in US politics and it did not fill me with optimism.

When you have eliminated the implausible, whatever remains, however distasteful, must be endorsed.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#58

Post by Daniel_Newby »

tocomment wrote: post #18
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other countries have had such success with this model that it's becoming very difficult to argue that it's inherently flawed ... The British NHS discovered that by not feeding hospitalized patients they could realize tremendous savings in food, shortened length of hospital stay, followup costs, etc. > half the price per person Health care spending will dramatically increase under Obamacare. Americans spend a lot on…

That sounds interesting. Can you explain more about the bubble angle?

Government officials find something popular, promise unlimited amounts of it to get votes, then create a program to deliver it with total disregard for economic consequences.

Last decade they bought votes with easy mortgages. After all, even an idiot could see that home ownership was a sound investment. They won two or three rounds of elections with mortgage policy.

This decade it is health care for all! Even an idiot can see that health care for everyone is a sound investment. Just look at these scary charts of runaway growth of medical costs. And the votes roll in.

In reality, most health care consists of vaccines, blood pressure pills, diabetes pills, and the occassional antibiotics. That gives most of the benefits and costs almost nothing.

Most of the costs come from ludicrous end-of-life procedures on old people, most of the rest comes from ludicrous $500k courses of treatments for this like multiple sclerosis and stage 29 recurrent cancer. These are lifestyle choices for well-off people who would rather pay a doctor than leave an inheritance.

Trying to extend this lifestyle to every waitress will destroy the economy. It's no different than last decade's plan to put every hairdresser in a $700k mansion.

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#59

Post by Daniel_Newby »

phaemon wrote: post #24
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other countries have had such success with this model that it's becoming very difficult to argue that it's inherently flawed ... The British NHS discovered that by not feeding hospitalized patients they could realize tremendous savings in food, shortened length of hospital stay, followup costs, etc. > half the price per person Health care spending will dramatically increase under Obamacare. Americans spend a lot on…

> The British NHS discovered that by not feeding hospitalized patients they could realize tremendous savings in food, shortened length of hospital stay, followup costs, etc. That's a lie. Try checking your facts next time: http://fullfact.org/factchecks/nhs_malnutrition_death-28806 Oh, and by the way, the NHS costs us less than US public healthcare costs. Meanwhile, I can get zero deduction, all additions, money for…

The story was covered extensively by bloggers over 5 years ago, and appeared in the press periodically since. Basically, the local NHS trusts fired a lot of hospital staff to save money. They replaced them with service contractors.

So instead of a trained nurse feeding helpless patients, a gormless food deliverer drops a tray off at the patient and leaves. On paper they are still being fed, but in reality patients were starving during the trickiest few hours of recovery. But look at the costs drop!

Similar cost cutting was done for the building caretakers and similar staff. On paper everything is the same just more efficient, but in reality the floors are not getting cleaned, nobody is bringing round tea for the surgeon in the middle of a 12 hour procedure. But look at the costs go down! Look at the readmission rate drop!

Re: Is Employer-Based Health Insurance A Barrier To Entrepreneurship? (2010)

#60

Post by [deleted] »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #58
tocomment wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds interesting. Can you explain more about the bubble angle?

Government officials find something popular, promise unlimited amounts of it to get votes, then create a program to deliver it with total disregard for economic consequences. Last decade they bought votes with easy mortgages. After all, even an idiot could see that home ownership was a sound investment. They won two or three rounds of elections with mortgage policy. This decade it is health care for all! Even an idio…

[deleted]
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