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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#351

Post by Vivtek »

altcognito wrote: post #290
Vivtek wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if you want to be a cog in a machine instead of a human being, this is a reasonable position to take. Time you "waste" is time the overworked IT department doesn't have to, in a company that's not too big to function. Your knowing more is never a waste.

Time you spend in one place may have been better spent elsewhere. The time you take to learn one thing may have been spent elsewhere. Some knowledge is busywork as well. All knowledge is not created equal.

You remind me of the guys I knew at Eli Lilly. Those unfortunate enough to end up in technically oriented departments are warned not to learn too much - it will limit their career to learn about things instead of making relationships.

I was happy to have the door hit me on the way out. I learned a lot there. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#352

Post by iopq »

mathattack wrote: post #50

This is a stretch for me... Should every kid know how to install Linux? And troubleshoot a proxy? Hmmm.... And is this important if they can't read or write well? I view computing as a great topic for those that are interested, but technology is getting easier. I want my kids to learn about it, and consider it for a career. But mandatory? I won't turn my nose up on anyone who doesn't understand proxy settings. That s…

I'd rather them know how to install Linux than write well. It's far more useful.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#353

Post by zerohp »

brigade wrote: post #245
daraul wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car analogy falls apart though, when you consider the complexity of the tasks that he's complaining about. We would rightly laugh at anyone who complained that their car wouldn't 'turn on' when they jammed their key into the gap between the ignition and the steering column, or because the car was out of fuel. We'd laugh if they complained that they can't see at night because they didn't turn the lights on, and ne…

The wifi is actually somewhat excusable, if they only ever connect to the internet at home or work and could have been years since those two networks were configured. Plenty of people never use internet on their laptop outside of two or three places. However, it's pure lunacy on the part of the IT guy to expect people to know the specific proxy settings (including whether or not a proxy is needed), where to enter the…

He should have configured the DHCP server to send proxy settings to clients (option 252).

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#354

Post by zerohp »

vehementi wrote: post #348
brigade wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes - even an amateur has a chance of realizing from said clues whether their battery is dead, or they're out of gas. But for network issues, the error message you're going to get 19 times out of 20 is some minor variant of "Server could not be reached." Which offers no additional information that you don't already know from it failing to work.

"Server can't be reached" gives critical, actionable information. Error messages can be searched for! If you can't search for an error message, you can't use a computer.

Search for an error message when you can't use the network. Nice.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#355

Post by vehementi »

zerohp wrote: post #354
vehementi wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Server can't be reached" gives critical, actionable information. Error messages can be searched for! If you can't search for an error message, you can't use a computer.

Search for an error message when you can't use the network. Nice.

Mobile. Other people with mobile. Other computers. Nice. If you can't get a error message searched for, you can't use computers.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#356

Post by brigade »

vehementi wrote: post #348
brigade wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes - even an amateur has a chance of realizing from said clues whether their battery is dead, or they're out of gas. But for network issues, the error message you're going to get 19 times out of 20 is some minor variant of "Server could not be reached." Which offers no additional information that you don't already know from it failing to work.

"Server can't be reached" gives critical, actionable information. Error messages can be searched for! If you can't search for an error message, you can't use a computer.

Or you can't search for it because you can't reach the internet.

Anyway, if you can definitively figure out which of the following is true from that message without the use of additional diagnostic utilities, well... (yes I have personally seen all of these (except exactly 12 which I've seen variants of but worded it the same way as the article))

1. Your cable modem can't find a signal, because of weather conditions

2. Your cable modem can't find a signal, but can once it's rebooted

3. Your access point stopped working, and needs a power cycle

4. The AP failed to give your computer any of: an IP address, DNS, a gateway, a working gateway

5. Your computer thinks it's connected to a wireless network, but the AP isn't receiving packets it sends

6. Your computer thinks it's connected to a wireless network, has the correct gateway, and can ping the AP, but nothing else (despite other computers on the same network working fine)

7. Your AP randomly resets long-lived TCP streams (due to a bug in its firmware)

8. Your ISP reliably corrupts traffic from eBay, fixed by getting a different IP address and gateway from the ISP (by changing MAC addresses)

9. Your ISP has the wrong DNS entries for the site you're attempting to visit

10. You need to visit a specific, unadvertised intranet page and sign in before your connection works

11. You need to manually enter intranet proxy settings before your connection works

12. Your intranet proxy is blocking Youtube and the player you're using doesn't bundle a general-purpose web browser

13. Youtube videos buffer at 3 kb/s from your laptop, but work fine from your tablet, on the same network

(okay 12 and 13 are cheating a little since they don't give any error message, but the point is that the error messages are basically never enough on their own to diagnose network issues)

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#357

Post by enraged_camel »

brandon272 wrote: post #234
300bps wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. There are certain professions that get brought problems constantly by people who think nothing of having you work for them for free. Doctors get this constantly at parties, at the grocery store, functions for their kids, etc. "Does this look like anything to you?" To a mu…

I detect a lot of resentment in your post that could all be avoided by just saying "No, sorry, I can't fix your computer."

I have a sweatshirt that says "No, I will not fix your computer." It gets many laughs, and the best part is that it works!

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#358

Post by stinky613 »

vehementi wrote: post #350

Yyyyyyup, that's a lot of comments by people complaining about the tone of the article (and misunderstanding it to boot) and ignoring the content.

Tone affects the perceived meaning of content. The same statement delivered with different tones will come across as genuine or enthusiastic or sarcastic or puzzling etc

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#359

Post by jpatokal »

The blog doesn't do a very good job of explaining why this should worry us. For shits and giggles, try replacing every instance of "computer" with "car", and every complaint about not being able to reinstall the OS with not being able to replace the carburetor.

Guess what? The vast majority of people don't need to know how to replace the carburetor, or know how to reinstall the OS -- they're happy with something that Just Works 99% of the time, and to consult professionals the rest of the time. And that's just fine: in the same way that not everybody needs to be a car mechanic, not everybody needs to be a computer guru.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#360

Post by king_jester »

vehementi wrote: post #347
king_jester wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, connecting to different wifi networks and turning on and off the radio should be considered basic knowledge--if you'd like to argue to the contrary, please save us the trouble and acknowledge that you want to remove any semblance of security for users. I'm just trying to point out that expectations on connectivity are not consistent from one machine or platform to the next and that inconsistency make…

> Having worked with video troubleshooting for a variety of people, some folks understand that the video is remote and some do not. PowerPoint definitely should be designed in a way that helps the user make the distinction better than it currently does. Those who don't, can't use computers. I mean come on. "PowerPoint doesn't work" when referring to a video on one of the slides not loading?

If you were a user who didn't understand the difference between embedding the video and actually downloading it to local storage, it doesn't seem unreasonable to say "PowerPoint doesn't work", that program isn't loading the resource you thought you had.

> Those who don't, can't use computers.

The trend for the last decade or more has been to put more and more resources online or tie them to computer systems. In the US especially, libraries and social programs are underfunded and cannot meet the need of those that must use a computer to access something they need while not being able to use a computer. Applying for unemployment, handling documentation, finding work, and more are very computer centric now. In a perfect world, there would be options even for those that can't use a computer. However, we don't live in that world and as designers and implementers of hardware and software design we have a social duty to make the situation better for every user and potential user.

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