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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#241

Post by [deleted] »

300bps wrote: post #132
simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. There are certain professions that get brought problems constantly by people who think nothing of having you work for them for free. Doctors get this constantly at parties, at the grocery store, functions for their kids, etc. "Does this look like anything to you?" To a mu…

[deleted]

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#242

Post by adammil »

He's mastered the arcane and delicate technology that we software people work with every day, but that doesn't make everyone else a moron. His experience blinds him to how bad the user interfaces are for most things we use. The sad fact is that most software products are simply not good enough if the general population is expected to be successful with them.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#243

Post by kmm »

bambax wrote: post #32

> a kitten with it’s head in a toilet roll its head If your plan is to insult readers before they even start to read your rant, can you at least make an effort to spell your insults correctly?

Language is fluid, and besides, it makes sense to add the 's possessive marker to it. It's the way it used to be written.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#244

Post by anfedorov »

blakestein wrote: post #92
ender7 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

The difference I see here is I don't think there's some sort of prevailing idea that young people all know how to fix their cars, like there is that they know how to use a computer.

Knowing how to use a computer is a lot more integral to living in modern society than knowing how to use/debug a car, though. Especially in areas with good public transit, one can live life without knowing how to drive, much less fix a car. Computers, on the other hand, are quickly becoming our best windows into the world at large.

Knowing the technical difference between China's great firewall, the NSA's snooping, and the the UK's proposed porn filter is vital for people making decisions about them, as well as educated voters.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#245

Post by brigade »

daraul wrote: post #209
simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

The car analogy falls apart though, when you consider the complexity of the tasks that he's complaining about. We would rightly laugh at anyone who complained that their car wouldn't 'turn on' when they jammed their key into the gap between the ignition and the steering column, or because the car was out of fuel. We'd laugh if they complained that they can't see at night because they didn't turn the lights on, and ne…

The wifi is actually somewhat excusable, if they only ever connect to the internet at home or work and could have been years since those two networks were configured. Plenty of people never use internet on their laptop outside of two or three places.

However, it's pure lunacy on the part of the IT guy to expect people to know the specific proxy settings (including whether or not a proxy is needed), where to enter them, what sites exactly are being blocked, and how to diagnose where in the chain of powerpoint -> computer -> AP -> proxy -> internet your video is failing and how to fix it.

Going to cars, that's like expecting someone to be able to diagnose why an engine isn't starting when they turn the key in the ignition. Without any sonic or haptic clues.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#246

Post by angersock »

chc wrote: post #204
angersock wrote: post #86

So, here's some different themes in the thread so far, some ideas spawned from the article, and thoughts on them: Author is a jerk for the TLDR at the beginning Sure--it's unfortunate that such a red herring was thrown into an otherwise excellent article. Normal people shouldn't have to learn how to into computer. This is unreasonable. "People don't want to learn how to computer, they want to learn how to get X done"…

> Author is a jerk for the TLDR at the beginning > Sure--it's unfortunate that such a red herring was thrown into an otherwise excellent article. No, he comes across as a jerk for about 75% of the entire condescending article. "I'm better at this stuff than some people and thus these people are less than me" is the overriding theme here. There is a kernel of an excellent point here — that we would benefit from better…

First, he was coming at it from the position of being a fellow teacher, not designated IT-bro.

Second, you dismiss the problems as things "nobody ever has"--guess what? Somebody had them.

Third, he mostly listed examples where a cursory bout of reasoning or just a bit more experience in computers (gotten through doing something other than delegating to the mystical IT wizards) would've solved the problem.

And no, he didn't say the kid was stupid or a numbskull--he said the kid didn't know how to use computers. Stop putting words into the dude's mouth.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#247

Post by BWStearns »

rayiner wrote: post #221
daraul wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car analogy falls apart though, when you consider the complexity of the tasks that he's complaining about. We would rightly laugh at anyone who complained that their car wouldn't 'turn on' when they jammed their key into the gap between the ignition and the steering column, or because the car was out of fuel. We'd laugh if they complained that they can't see at night because they didn't turn the lights on, and ne…

The rebuttal to that is that people might be able to learn if software people didn't keep changing how it works. It's obvious on nearly every car since 1960 where the ignition is. Can you say the same for the Wi-Fi settings on computers?

Also, it's almost always been located in either the top right or bottom right of the screen (re. Windows/OSX here). If all of a sudden the new OSX version required a command line to connect, or changed the icon to something else, I'd understand. But to borrow from the car example, the ignition is unlikely to be located in the trunk.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#248

Post by glhaynes »

jlgreco wrote: post #224
glhaynes wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't at all understand why you're frightened of me not knowing how to do something that I'm not interested in, almost surely never will have to do, and can always easily learn if either of these situations changes. You learn the things you're interested in, the rest of us will each learn the things we're interested in. You can be frightened about that, but it's frankly overbearing.

Pop open your glovebox; there is a nice picture book in there that explains with nice line-drawing illustrations how to change your oil. It is easier in every way than assembling an arbitrary Ikea chair. If following instructions from a picture book is too much for you, then I am frightened, mostly for your own safety. Nobody is saying you have to figure out how do it in a sterile proctored testing environment with n…

Right. I'll read that page when and if I ever need to.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#249

Post by ryansan »

chc wrote: post #204
angersock wrote: post #86

So, here's some different themes in the thread so far, some ideas spawned from the article, and thoughts on them: Author is a jerk for the TLDR at the beginning Sure--it's unfortunate that such a red herring was thrown into an otherwise excellent article. Normal people shouldn't have to learn how to into computer. This is unreasonable. "People don't want to learn how to computer, they want to learn how to get X done"…

> Author is a jerk for the TLDR at the beginning > Sure--it's unfortunate that such a red herring was thrown into an otherwise excellent article. No, he comes across as a jerk for about 75% of the entire condescending article. "I'm better at this stuff than some people and thus these people are less than me" is the overriding theme here. There is a kernel of an excellent point here — that we would benefit from better…

I agree. The vitriol through the majority of the article is exactly part of the reason people keep IT folks at arms length. I can appreciate the level of frustration, but the litany of "n00b" anecdotes is a bit absurd.

The other thing that kills me is that there will always be layers of abstraction. This was especially apparent to me when he rattles off a few programming languages part way through:

...PHP, HTML, JavaScript and Haskell

There's a chain (which is often two-way, I've found): The web content manager that never bothers to learn jQuery. The jQuery developer that never bothers to learn JavaScript. The JavaScript developer that never bothers to learn PHP. The PHP developer that never bothers to learn C. The C developer that never bothers to learn Assembly.

I do appreciate that he actually offers solutions at the end in the form of some fairly vague calls to action, instead of whining 100% of the time. I just don't care much for the delivery.

(However, you have to admit that it probably got a lot of attention as a result of the delivery...kudos for that, I suppose.)

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#250

Post by makerops »

"I looked at the MacBook. I had no experience with OSX at the time. Jobs wasn’t an idiot though, and displayed proudly in the top right hand corner of the screen was a universally recognisable WiFi symbol. It took me seconds to get the device on the network.

I handed back the MacBook and the woman opened up Safari. ‘The Internet’s not working.’ she stated with disdain."

This, while I may be reading WAY too much into it, is a great display of how I used to think about what I do for a living, and conduct business. You are asked to do X, so you do X. What your client really wants is Y. She wanted to browse the web, not getting her there before you hand the laptop back is fruitless and frustrating to her, the same goes for a client.

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