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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#181

Post by mannkind »

While I do kind of agree with parts of the article, the author proposes some seriously nonsensical "solutions".

Especially this gem:

""" Mobile [...] I use Ubuntu-Touch, and it has possibilities. [...] Okay, so I can’t use 3G, it crashes when I try to make phone calls and the device runs so hot that when in my jacket pocket it seconds as an excellent nipple-warmer, but I can see the potential. """

To learn more about "mobile" the author proposes using a something that's not functional ... yeah, that makes sense.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#182

Post by SamBoogie »

I love hacker News and wouldn't consider posting this unless I were certain that it applied. My friends and I are working on a game that will teach players (mainly kids) how to code. We have done workshops in NYC, Philly and Sheffield, England. I'd love for you guys to take a look at it and give feedback, we think we're making something pretty cool. www.betathegame.com

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#183

Post by wvenable »

aristidb wrote: post #155
wvenable wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you eventually fixed it yourself. So therefore you can use a computer. This is not about stupid mistakes.

No, I called IT support and they fixed it for me.

But you did understand the problem and given enough time you would have figured it out.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#184

Post by segulio »

ethanbond wrote: post #2

So I take it the author can fix any brand of car and would, without missing a beat, answer questions like "where's the expansion tank?" I'm so tired of "tech savvy" people simultaneously sitting on their high chairs and large salaries dissuading anything that makes their trade less esoteric - and then talking down to those who can't pierce the veil for whatever reason (whether it by financial, intellectual, or just n…

Well, I dont know how to fix any brand of car but I know how to drive them because I had to learn it before I could drive.

People don't want to learn to do things, they want anyone else who knows how to to do it, that why they don't try to fix anything by themselves. They just run to the nearest geek and ask them to fix it, even if it is the easiest task.

Just ask them to pay you $50 everytime the answer for their problem is in the first page of a simple google search. That way I got a lot of lazy friends to learn o fix their shit.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#185

Post by ctdonath »

otakucode wrote: post #26

The problem isn't that these people can't use computers. It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions. They don't know how to do it with their computer... or their car, or their vacuuming robot, or their television, or their oven or their relationships or any thing in their life. They don't understand why…

There's a difference between can't and won't. This issue is the latter, as exemplified by the example where a kid was hitting OK so fast the actual error message couldn't be read.

As a professor, I was astounded at how many students failed just because they wouldn't do the work. A large fraction were certainly capable of doing so (some spectacularly capable), but just...didn't. Having and increasing a vast array of educational resources available wasn't the solution because they wouldn't take the first step, no matter how simple.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#186

Post by angersock »

king_jester wrote: post #164

Technical literacy for the avg computer user could be better, but the examples cited aren't surprising because those situations ARE confusing. Let's break it down: * Someone's MacBook doesn't connect to the internet. This is because 1) the wi-fi is turned off and 2) the school has a burdensome proxy policy. On (1), there is a huge disconnect between understanding that wi-fi functions like a radio with an on/off state…

  Someone's MacBook doesn't connect to the internet.
At this point, connecting to different wifi networks and turning on and off the radio should be considered basic knowledge--if you'd like to argue to the contrary, please save us the trouble and acknowledge that you want to remove any semblance of security for users.

The proxy probably threw up a message describing that it was working properly, and that the requested content was blocked because of $reason.

Things were working as expected and designed, and the user tried to do something that was outside of that envelope. If the user wants to do more, the user should learn to do more.

  Someone has embedded a YouTube video into a powerpoint presentation.
User did not understand the idea of remote content. User should be made aware of difference in remote content, possibly even later going on to use it to make smaller presentations where appropriate, or to guarantee operation in network-limited situations.

   A user's laptop is running very slowly due to virus infection.
User acknowledged that they were aware of virus scanners, used file-sharing programs, and voluntarily did not take prophylactic measures.

  A user complains of a computer not turning on, but it turns out the machine is on and the monitor is off.
User has apparently never used a television with a separate cable box, or a car with a radio, or a projector with a laptop. User now knows better, and can teach others!

  A user cannot connect to the internet even after trying various software settings.
User did not understand function of all buttons on machine. User now understands function of wireless toggle on machine, can help others.

  A user attempts to log in to a network site/computer.
User deliberately skips impatiently past diagnostic information sufficient to immediately ascertain source of issue and enable rectification.

User will go on to one day become stranded in traffic having ignored "low fuel" light in car.

  A user has a new iPhone and is sad about loss of contacts.
User bought into frictionless ecosystem, and was not notified that the needful was already happening automatically--though pondering the question "what if my phone breaks?" would've prevented this.

(To be fair, this is outright poor software design.)

  A user complains of not having internet access.
User never bothered to learn difference between shortcuts and files. User now knows difference, hopefully.

   A user thinks they have a virus.
User does not notice telltale UI mismatch, and does not know machine well enough to catch that. User hopefully now knows better.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#187

Post by pyk »

We have English classes since we need to read and write on a daily basis. We have math classes since we need to add/subtract/multiply on a daily basis.

But why don't we have a technology literacy course where kids can learn about devices we interact on a now daily (hourly?) basis. It could be taught at a low enough grade level before the geeky become geeky so-to-speak. Something beyond just typing skills.

Demystifying the magic behind a computer/smartphone/tablet may even encourage those who wouldn't give a second thought to coding to now jump right in.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#188

Post by jlgreco »

angersock wrote: post #125
brandon272 wrote: post #64

I found that the author came across as extraordinarily condescending with the whole "let's get the president on the phone" thing. I'm sure that the woman he was dealing with understood full well that the "Internet" itself was probably fine and that it was her configuration that was the problem. Though I guess he took the holier-than-thou approach because she didn't use the precise terminology that he would have prefe…

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

I think the amount of snark that doctors get away with is pretty illustrative of the low social standing that people in technology have.

If you told a doctor "my body hurts" and refused to clarify, you would almost certainly get some sort of snark. Nobody thinks poorly of doctors because of this though, while people in technology are caricatured endlessly in popular media for it.

The most you see that being done for doctors in media is probably House who is a complete asshole junky with vague personality disorders... but he's right dammit! The popular depictions of people in technology almost without fail leave of the "but he's right" and instead go with "his dweebish mind missed the obvious: we just had to [shoot|kick|shove] the computer."

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#189

Post by bluedino »

fsckin wrote: post #138
ender7 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

If you read the article, you would know the answer. "A hundred years ago, if you were lucky enough to own a car then you probably knew how to fix it. People could at least change the oil, change the tyres, or even give the engine a tune-up. I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me."

>> I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me.

Right. But you bought a car to drive places, not because you like taking them apart or 'programming' them. You probably bought a computer for the latter.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#190

Post by jlgreco »

glhaynes wrote: post #179
jlgreco wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose we have different perspectives on what the general public is capable of. To me, changing your oil yourself is somewhere on par with being able to connect to wifi yourself. Sure, you'll often just get other people to do it for you when you are having other more extensive work done on the car, but having to get somebody to do it for you seems sort of like having to call "Geek Squad" to connect to your home wi…

I suppose we have different perspectives on what the general public is capable of. Who's talking about capability? I'm sure the vast majority of people are capable of it. Likewise, I'm sure you're capable of performing lots of the services you pay for. Nevertheless, we all decide differently which things we want to do ourselves and which things we like specialists to do for us.

Who isn't talking about capability? The claim was "Everyone should learn how to change the oil in their car, though.", not "Everyone should change the oil in their car, though."

The inability to change your oil is frightening on the same level as the inability to connect yourself to wifi. I don't give a shit if you get your oil changed at the shop, or if your work computer automagically connects to corporate wifi out of the box, but you should be able to do either yourself.

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