Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#111

Post by qq66 » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:03 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #2

So I take it the author can fix any brand of car and would, without missing a beat, answer questions like "where's the expansion tank?" I'm so tired of "tech savvy" people simultaneously sitting on their high chairs and large salaries dissuading anything that makes their trade less esoteric - and then talking down to those who can't pierce the veil for whatever reason (whether it by financial, intellectual, or just n…

My educational background is in computer science. I took my car to the dealer and they said that transmission fluid had leaked into the transmission control unit and the unit needs to be replaced.

Many people would just have the service done. The difference in the thoughtful approach is what questions you ask. How does transmission fluid leak upwards? (Capillary action through the electrical harness). Can the transmission control unit be repaired? (They said no, the answer is yes). What is the root cause of the problem? (They said "it happens sometimes").

If you stop to ask the questions and think about the answers, you realize that transmission fluid does not spontaneously leak twelve inches upwards in a functioning car. I had a mechanic find and replace a leaky bushing, clean out the transmission controller with electrical contact cleaner, and flush out the electrical harness, all for less than the cost of replacing the controller (which wouldn't have fixed the problem).

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#112

Post by salem » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:03 PM UTC

People may not like how this message is delivered, but I've worked support at a university full of supposedly smart people and saw the same sort of things. It's a real issue that I hope the raspberry pi and associated efforts do something to address. My favorite IT request was someone asking to put the internet on a disk for them.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#113

Post by joshuahedlund » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

cliveowen wrote: post #20

Kids know how to use computers, they know how to make them do what they need them to: browsing, email, some text-processing. Everything else, and I'm sorry to break it to you, it's the realm of technicians. The plumbers don't expect the average joe to know how to unblock an occluded pipe, do they? Expecting everyone to know how to configure advanced settings in a computer just because you know how to do it it's very…

Did you read past the initial example with the proxy settings? He talks about kids who can't figure out that their monitor is off or the internet cable is unplugged - those aren't advanced settings, and they're scenarios of kids not knowing how to "make them do what they need them to" when there's the slightest deviation from their normal procedure.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#114

Post by Raphmedia » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

I am laughing pretty hard at all the comment here that rants on the first few paragraph and then brings points that are actually covered later on in the article...

Yes, he is being harsh with the teacher. Yes, cars are complicated.

That's not the point. Read the full article...

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#115

Post by angersock » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #50

This is a stretch for me... Should every kid know how to install Linux? And troubleshoot a proxy? Hmmm.... And is this important if they can't read or write well? I view computing as a great topic for those that are interested, but technology is getting easier. I want my kids to learn about it, and consider it for a career. But mandatory? I won't turn my nose up on anyone who doesn't understand proxy settings. That s…

The issue in the article was that the proxy was needed to circumvent draconian content filtering. I learned how to use proxies in school specifically to work around this.

You can complain about your problems, or you can refuse to learn how to fix them--you don't get to do both.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#116

Post by VMG » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

cweaver wrote: post #99

VMG wrote: post #82

The analysis is good, the conclusion is questionable. Of course a system administrator thinks knowing about computers is the most important thing. A medical doctor thinks kids should know about medicine to stay healthy. A lawyer thinks kids should know about the law and know how society works. An athlete thinks his kids should play team sports and learn grit and be tough. Like with everything in life, you should know…

I like your examples as they all apply to pretty much everyone (as computing does) but I think we need to have a minimum understanding for all of them. Health, law, economics and computer classes should each have a pretty high bar. Being able to troubleshoot your computer or installing/configuring software should be just as important as knowing how to balance a checkbook or eat healthy and exercise.

I guess we disagree where the level of minimal understanding lies. Why should kids know how to install and configure software if they'll only use Android and iOS in a few years? Knowing how an IP address works as arcane as knowing how an oscillating spindle sander works.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#117

Post by Vivtek » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

altcognito wrote: post #67

arkades wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly enough, in Russian there's an expression (with a certain nuance) "You have to know everything." It's simple: life is vast, complicated, and you will be fucked in every possible direction you are ignorant of. You have to know everything . Cutting off a piece of reality and saying "that's for technicians" is for schmucks.

Yeah, but it is a really inefficient way to run a society. Time I waste figuring out why my corporate overlord's choice of email client isn't working with the server when I have little knowledge of the backend infrastructure is time wasted for the company.

I suppose if you want to be a cog in a machine instead of a human being, this is a reasonable position to take.

Time you "waste" is time the overworked IT department doesn't have to, in a company that's not too big to function. Your knowing more is never a waste.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#118

Post by tenpoundhammer » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

"I want the people who will help shape our society in the future to understand the technology that will help shape out society in the future."

The people who shape our society will know what they need to know. I'm not sure a great understanding of a desktop PC is going to change this.

On a separate note, the author is demanding that everyone be super knowledgeable about a set of devices that is on it's way out. I think it's far more relevant for people to understand how their phones,tablets, and the internet work than understanding how to re-install windows...

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#119

Post by bndw » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

thank you

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#120

Post by javajosh » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 6:06 PM UTC

We assume that growing up with computers makes you expert with them, when it doesn't. I wrote about this last year [1].

Since then, I've realized something important: things fall apart. Always have, always will. It's just thermodynamics. This means that we have to keep rebuilding our world. Which means that the people who build things really control the world. Remember that the next time a techno-illiterate sneers at you: you are building the world they inhabit, you get to decide what it looks like, so pity them.

[1] http://javajosh.blogspot.com/2012/06/note-to-parents-compute...