Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#91

Post by gambiting » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:55 PM UTC

AndyKelley wrote: post #69

gambiting wrote: post #59

I could also add that nowadays people don't know how to use cars. They might as well be magical boxes that take us places and nothing that happens underneath the bonnet is important. And just like in this article - there are people who are perversely proud of it. They are proud that they don't know how to change a wheel, how to check oil level, or even refill the washer fluid. In fact, they don't even know HOW to ope…

You must not have read the article, because it explicitly mentions cars.

I did, except for the very last paragraph since I thought I got the essence of the article already. I see it now.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#92

Post by blakestein » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:56 PM UTC

ender7 wrote: post #61

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

The difference I see here is I don't think there's some sort of prevailing idea that young people all know how to fix their cars, like there is that they know how to use a computer.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#93

Post by salem » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #18

ethanbond wrote: post #2

So I take it the author can fix any brand of car and would, without missing a beat, answer questions like "where's the expansion tank?" I'm so tired of "tech savvy" people simultaneously sitting on their high chairs and large salaries dissuading anything that makes their trade less esoteric - and then talking down to those who can't pierce the veil for whatever reason (whether it by financial, intellectual, or just n…

If it does not have ECU or diesel pump I could fix pretty much everything else and bring the car in movable condition. You just need to obtain some manuals and a screwdriver. And I am not car enthusiast. The problem is that the computing devices are moving to be the center of people lives. You must know how something works just to be able to protect yourself.

I've been there! My motorbike was in the shop for weeks, and they couldn't figure it out. A quick scan of the manual's troubleshooting section, a quick chat with the mechanic, a trip by me to the wreckers to buy an ECU and optionally get it refunded for $20 less, and bam, bike fixed. I am not a mechanic.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#94

Post by ssyphon » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

Thank you for writing this.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#95

Post by brianpgordon » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #2

So I take it the author can fix any brand of car and would, without missing a beat, answer questions like "where's the expansion tank?" I'm so tired of "tech savvy" people simultaneously sitting on their high chairs and large salaries dissuading anything that makes their trade less esoteric - and then talking down to those who can't pierce the veil for whatever reason (whether it by financial, intellectual, or just n…

I'll concede that I can't repair a car. It's no different from a mechanic conceding that he can't use a computer.

And I know that those are different words, that I can USE a car but not REPAIR a car. However, with a computer there is a vanishing distinction between the two. Sure there are some specialized tools and techniques that computer repair techs need to know about that regular people don't need. But in general, you need to know a lot about computers to be able to say you can use them, and that level of knowledge is usually sufficient to repair them.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#96

Post by Volscio » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #62

The 30-50 age range can use computers because they spent the early half of the 90s trying to get VGA games to run reasonably well on their 386s. Or they were laying in front of the commodore, recreating code from a magazine. Me and my friends tried to recreate songs on it. At least that's how I got my start. What's your story?

I'm interested in that point as well -- are people in that age range an aberration in history? Are they more likely to be able to troubleshoot than the older grumps and the younger kids who only had one-piece gadgets? Likely not, but it'd be interesting if the generation that had to tinker with their PCs was unique to other generations.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#97

Post by angersock » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

  The computer is a device that, most of the time, just gets in the way of doing X.

I responded to this in somewhat more detail down below, but I'll be really blunt here: Their own fucking unwillingness to seek out knowledge and have the patience to learn to solve problems is what gets in the way of getting things done.

And every IT person with bad manners or an unwillingness to teach whatever they know and answer questions is complicit in this farce.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#98

Post by MarcScott » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #90

simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

This guy sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. As you pointed out: >The first rule of any educator is to never, under any circumstances, make someone feel inept. And it was so easily avoidable here. There are many sentences in this article indicating that this is not an isolated, unique reaction from the poster. This paragraph especially irked me: > I’ve messed up, as I’m sure many of you have. When we purchased…

That was my point when I said I've messed up. From now on I intend to spend more time teaching them rather than doing it for them.

Believe me, I never intentionally make people feel inept. I'm patient in the classroom, and teach to the ability of my students.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#99

Post by cweaver » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

VMG wrote: post #82

The analysis is good, the conclusion is questionable. Of course a system administrator thinks knowing about computers is the most important thing. A medical doctor thinks kids should know about medicine to stay healthy. A lawyer thinks kids should know about the law and know how society works. An athlete thinks his kids should play team sports and learn grit and be tough. Like with everything in life, you should know…

I like your examples as they all apply to pretty much everyone (as computing does) but I think we need to have a minimum understanding for all of them. Health, law, economics and computer classes should each have a pretty high bar. Being able to troubleshoot your computer or installing/configuring software should be just as important as knowing how to balance a checkbook or eat healthy and exercise.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#100

Post by Laremere » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

Phargo wrote: post #6

Wow... "TL;DR? Why not just go watch another five second video of a kitten with it’s head in a toilet roll, or a 140 character description of a meal your friend just stuffed in their mouth. “num num”. This blog post is not for you." Snarky enough? If you start out like that I've already made the decision that you're over opinionated and probably prone to dramatic exaggeration.

I was going to start reading the article, but the TL;DR dissuaded me. The article look to be a long one, and if I just committed to reading every long article on the internet I'd never get anything done. The beginning of the article should serve to get me interested and willing to invest the time to read the article, not as a snark remark to people who have already showed interest in your article by navigating to it. In the case that this is a reply to people asking for TL;DR on things you write: A tl;dr means that someone was interested in what you had to say enough to leave a comment. However you failed to show the worth of reading the article given the apparent size of it. You had the potential to get those who would start reading your article to see if it had value and told all of them to go waste their time.